If you haven't done anything wrong...
A phone-calls/Emails database has been considered for a while. It would contain details of numbers/emails called/sent by everyone in the country, but not the content. No doubt trying to slip the news in during the festive season, the government has now stated this may be handled by the private sector.
There's a general attitude if you haven't done anything wrong, why would you mind. Unfortunately, "done anything wrong" has a rather wide meaning, as any police officer or anyone who reads police blogs will know. In today's Britain, as soon as your ex, neighbour, enemy or total stranger points at you and says you have committed a crime, you have. This is because, thanks to NCRS, as soon as your name is given by the victim, you are recorded as a "suspect" by most police forces. If you are not then arrested, you become an "unactioned suspect", which is seen by Senior Management as the greatest sin since Eve thought "what's the worst that can happen...?" This is because it is a missed opportunity to improve the force's detection rate, or, as my Area Commander puts it, "Provide a top quality service to a traumatised victim of crime."
A supreme amount of pressure is brought to bear on PCs to arrest their "unactioned suspects". I have actually been to a disciplinary interview over my refusal to do so on one occasion. Most officers, myself included, don't want to fight these battles on a day-to-day basis, and just do as they are told.
Of course, as soon as you are arrested, you enter the dream machine that is custody, the criminal justice system, Crown Prosecution Service advice, etc. Your fingerprints and DNA are taken and held forever on the national database. Your photograph is recorded, you are given a Criminal Records Bureau number. "Bad character" evidence is created in that you were once accused of this crime, and the police must have thought there was enough evidence to nick you for it. This can be used against you in a future prosecution.
It is the introduction of these policies and rules that has led to the total abuse of legislation such as the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. Introduced to protect victims from the twisted and murderous stalkers of the world, it is now used to prevent Kyle texting Sally that shes a stpd btch. Harassments are recorded at a rate of 5-10 a day in Blandshire Constabulary, and most will result in someone being arrested for something pathetic.
Applying this to the new glorious database of all phone-calls and emails, while initially it will be used to investigate the most serious of organised crime, terrorism, blackmail, murder, rape, etc, over time it will be used in the trivial inter-domestic/neighbour disputes that the police deal with all the time. Essentially, we will get to the stage where someone can point at you in the street and say "that person's been harassing me", and the police will be able to pull your email, phone and text records.
Apart from the frightening invasion of your privacy, this will all take weeks or months of police work, and will be a supreme and utter waste of everyone's time.
There's a general attitude if you haven't done anything wrong, why would you mind. Unfortunately, "done anything wrong" has a rather wide meaning, as any police officer or anyone who reads police blogs will know. In today's Britain, as soon as your ex, neighbour, enemy or total stranger points at you and says you have committed a crime, you have. This is because, thanks to NCRS, as soon as your name is given by the victim, you are recorded as a "suspect" by most police forces. If you are not then arrested, you become an "unactioned suspect", which is seen by Senior Management as the greatest sin since Eve thought "what's the worst that can happen...?" This is because it is a missed opportunity to improve the force's detection rate, or, as my Area Commander puts it, "Provide a top quality service to a traumatised victim of crime."
A supreme amount of pressure is brought to bear on PCs to arrest their "unactioned suspects". I have actually been to a disciplinary interview over my refusal to do so on one occasion. Most officers, myself included, don't want to fight these battles on a day-to-day basis, and just do as they are told.
Of course, as soon as you are arrested, you enter the dream machine that is custody, the criminal justice system, Crown Prosecution Service advice, etc. Your fingerprints and DNA are taken and held forever on the national database. Your photograph is recorded, you are given a Criminal Records Bureau number. "Bad character" evidence is created in that you were once accused of this crime, and the police must have thought there was enough evidence to nick you for it. This can be used against you in a future prosecution.
It is the introduction of these policies and rules that has led to the total abuse of legislation such as the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. Introduced to protect victims from the twisted and murderous stalkers of the world, it is now used to prevent Kyle texting Sally that shes a stpd btch. Harassments are recorded at a rate of 5-10 a day in Blandshire Constabulary, and most will result in someone being arrested for something pathetic.
Applying this to the new glorious database of all phone-calls and emails, while initially it will be used to investigate the most serious of organised crime, terrorism, blackmail, murder, rape, etc, over time it will be used in the trivial inter-domestic/neighbour disputes that the police deal with all the time. Essentially, we will get to the stage where someone can point at you in the street and say "that person's been harassing me", and the police will be able to pull your email, phone and text records.
Apart from the frightening invasion of your privacy, this will all take weeks or months of police work, and will be a supreme and utter waste of everyone's time.
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'Diary of an On-Call Girl' is available in some bookstores and online.
posted by PC Bloggs at 06:25
32 Comments:
I work for a company which runs a telephone business and am currently involved in a project to implement a home office requirement. We need to be able to report on who has phoned a particular phone number or what numbers it's called. Because they need it, they will pay for us to implement the system. The system we are putting in will also deal with emails because we have an ISP business too. It's not going in now, but the support for it is there.
When any of the Home Office sponsor agencies who have need of using our system want to query it, they contact our liason, we give them the details and charge them some nominal agreed fee (I think someone said it was a tenner).
I'm sure that PC Bloggs has never been able to use said system because it would require chief superintendent approval to spend a tenner.
It wouldn't surprise me if the justification (in their heads) in setting this up is that they'll be centralising what out there already and they can stop being charged every time they use it. This will make it easier for the relevant authorities (think MI5 etc, not the police) to be able to do queries, critical to the security of the nation.
As to the whole DNA database thing. If I could voluntarily put my DNA forward for the database in exchange for a discount in my annual tax bill (on the grounds that because I'm not going to do anything like murder anyone or knock off a bank, the cost of me to the Police is likely to be lower), I'd be queuing up to give it to them. I'm told by someone in the industry the cost of performing a DNA test is less than £2 (I can't remember but it was not the hundreds that are probably charged to the Forec) and anything else that is being charged is for logistics like couriers, or civil servants pushing papers around, etc.
07 January, 2009 08:06
There is nothing new under the sun, Ellie. Joe Public has always been subject to intrusive surveillance and 'bad character' labelling was always carried out unofficially. That old system was easier to 'revise' when students such as Jack Straw found real power.
Then other main difference between, say now and the 60's, is that the old telephone tap was such a noisy affair you had to be stupid not to be alert to it.
Now the comical side to monitoring has disappeared, fabulous opportunities for mischievous students to direct police or send them on wild goose chases, demands fresh ingenuity.
07 January, 2009 09:17
This extension of absent minded , surfing around, snooping ,is quite clearly because of a percived gap in the war on terror, and that this Government is getting slapped around in cyber space.
I should not worry about the SIS.They need direct sources ,not the twitterings of us on this ,and similar blogs.
It's the interfering nosebags who will denounce at the drop of a hat someone they don't like the sound off, think of those divvy social workers who used voodoo to take children off blameless parents , when one of their number read a book about Satanism and child abuse, this clown then saw it everywhere.
It's a sad fact that like those in Daniel Jonah Goldhagen book ,Hitler's Willing Executioners,the agent of your doom will most likely be a clerk or accountant.
The mission statements Police are being told to spout are the latest manifestation of this ,admit all , record all ,centralist tightening of power .
Which any student of history will tell you , is the reaction of a atrophying regime.
07 January, 2009 10:29
Precisely why, when the DNA database was introduced and my force asked us all to give ours voluntarily, "to assist in the illimination process", I told them that my samples were staying within my own database, and that I would decline their kind offer - only I delivered the message in two words.
07 January, 2009 10:34
Best post for a while, I think. Invidious, isn't it? I still hate sometimes having to say to a half-decent person "An allegation has been made and I'm duty-bound to investigate it". Call me Vichy if you must but I bet there's not too many bobbies reading this who don't say similar every week. Sad.
07 January, 2009 10:46
Well, perhaps now is the time to get an unregistered mobile (while I still can) and start calling and making unfounded harrasment complaints about local councillers of a Nu-LiBore persuasion, all local council chief execs, all social workers, all the SMT, etc etc etc.
A few quid on phone credit could cause a hillarious few weeks of headlines!
07 January, 2009 12:04
This of course shows how seriously the senior management of the police have lost the plot-they have absolutely no idea what is going on in the real world let alone in the kingdom of chav-all they worry about is their bonus and their next pip crown etc.They are never held to account and spend all their time ducking any responsibility yet trying to take all the kudos when it goes right.A few years ago Sgts such as me would have told the likes of Kyle and Tia Maria and all their extended families to "get out of my police station and grow up"Now we waste thousands of pounds of them sorting out their pathetic lives whilst burglary victims dont get a look in.
07 January, 2009 13:41
the thing with things like this, it puts an immense amount of power in the hands of individuals.
eg
you cross reference the ips visiting this blog with addresses. Then you cross reference those with addresses of serving police officers, frequency of visits, cross reference other sites they visit etc That then most likely gives you the blog author and a list of coppers to keep your eye on.
Once these systems are in place, such activity would be trivial. And if access to this system is compromised... who knows. And of course once such a thing is in place, you don't think it'll go further? hacked webcams, bluetooth phones etc
07 January, 2009 16:56
It doesn't really matter if you get arrested because nothing is ever going to happen to you in Court anyway.
07 January, 2009 18:32
"It doesn't really matter if you get arrested because nothing is ever going to happen to you in Court anyway."
But you still end up on the DNA data base....
07 January, 2009 18:41
"It doesn't really matter if you get arrested because nothing is ever going to happen to you in Court anyway."
It's hard enough to get a decent job as things stand without having a conviction to declare!
07 January, 2009 23:23
Gadget - you really are a wanker of the first order.
08 January, 2009 00:46
@ 00:46
being a first class anything is always good, it's a great hobby anyway.
08 January, 2009 09:45
If you think that this grand data base (to be privately run - by a cost reducing, profit maximising concern) will actually work - then you are seriously deluded. Time and time again, history shows that cock-up rather than conspiracy is the order of the day. (Let's face it - the expanding DNA database doesn't actually change anything - it won't tell the police or anyone else where you are - what you're doing - and it's only application is to compare crime scene marks against profiles on the database - anything else is pure paranoid fantasy-speculation. That said - the police take more samples than is necessary given the cycle of crime report-statement-investigation-arrest-samples-interview-decision-NFA.)
At this moment in time, part of my job involves requesting applications to mobile phone providers and ISP's for disclosure of subscriber details - to chase up 'threats via text message/facebook/MSN' and so forth. To date I have had precisely 0 positive results.
Bear in mind the source of these types of messages are not the brightest and best - certainly not the cream of Al-Queda, nor the Cose Nostra.
Our elected leaders have looked for a quick fix solution and found one, and the bright minds in the Home Office, and NuLabour (and for that matter NuTory, when they win an election) advisers have nothing new to bring to the party.
At the moment, I can't stop Dean texting Tracy telling her she's a 'slag', nor stop Carla and Sam swapping comments on Facebook about Laura and how 'the bitch will get well stabbed up...' - and no amount of billions the Home Office wants to spend on this latest wheeze will help either.
Regime change - bring it on.
08 January, 2009 17:31
"the cost of performing a DNA test is less than £2"
Try adding three zeroes for a courtroom-proof DNA comparison. Apart from the fact you will have to do the comparison again when you nick the person (to prove that the DNA sample from the database is the same as the person you've arrested), these comparisons are not cheap. Just getting it loaded onto the database IS reasonably cheap (I don't know figures).
08 January, 2009 21:21
WTF? so how long before some idiot loses a laptop with the database on it on the bus? yes this is a "GREAT IDEA NOT"
08 January, 2009 23:10
This is a weird one, go to the quickfit website, put a VRM in the tyre size box and it will tell you what the car is http://www.google.co.uk/aclk?sa=l&ai=CDUP3mYxmSdqdOZm28gT4hrzqBvP_hWC3j6X3AuqVswsIABABKAJQxNin3gFgu_asg9AKoAHfrJT-A8gBAakCnuzM32lbuT6qBB5P0EAwIRBoUVfecxmuOuVJbG7kcVXhEH_AQD8YoH0&sig=AGiWqtyCq9MDUzy3ihaTAupT8kENvolJqg&q=http://www.kwik-fit.com/welcome.asp%3Fo%3DTG%26p%3Dtyre
08 January, 2009 23:33
I think that we should all be dna swabbed and fingerprinted at birth, and photographed at regular two year intervals.
The passwords to all email addresses should be given to a government database and all text messages should be forwarded automatically to Jacqui Spliff's personal mobile phone for her persusal. The last text i sent my wife will certainly show her my diversity credentials. - Bullseye- westyorkshirepolice.blogspot.com
09 January, 2009 11:32
Its funny how there is always someone trotting out the "I have no problems to give my DNA" because obviously they've done nothing wrong.
As if DNA was always foolproof.
What those people do not really understand, apart from the implications regarding the citizen/state relationship, is that what they should really fear is having to prove that they have done nothing wrong.
09 January, 2009 13:37
I said in the first comment that I'd sign up if there was some real benefit to me in doing so. I have no intention of murdering someone at the pub in a fit of rage or stealing an armoured car full of cash. I'm not signing up because I've done nothing wrong. I'm signing up because I don't intend to do anything wrong.
I think we all know that whenever these kinds of crimes happen, there is a chance that random unidentified DNA samples will be found at the scene. They'll get fed through the database and some will come up as people who have legitimate reasons, others will remain unknown. Murders and rapes have been solved by DNA testing entire villages haven't they?
Ultimately if my DNA is found at the scene, they will probably track me down after much effort and then that will be one of the pieces of evidence they use in their investigation. However, because I had a legitimate reason for them finding a sample it's no difference from any other sort of evidence placing me there. They've expended a lot less effort in tracking me down to find that out. I'm reducing the cost of the investigation and therefore the cost of Policing.
So if the Government are prepared to offer me a discount in my income tax or council tax in exchange for me being easy to identify, I don't think I'm that bothered by it.
If someone wants to frame me and place me at the scene of a crime they are perpetrating, they can still presumably get my DNA, it's just going to take the Police longer to figure out it was me because I'm not going to be on their database (yet).
09 January, 2009 18:14
This is just one step further down the road of Gordon Brown's Orwellian vision, of knowing everything about ALL the people. Total State control. I object to the idea of strangers being able to intercept my email, and even letters posted in a Royal Mail post box.
Not because I have anything to hide, but because what I may say is for who the communication is sent to, privately. I doubt that many who actually voted for this deceptive government, are happy to have their emails, letters and texts read by government snoops.
And I HAVE had proof that my personal and private communications with my family have been snooped upon. I have also heard "clicking noises" during land line calls. It is an invasion of my privacy and it is nothing new. What has been done to me is relentless harassment, some of it rather spiteful and malicious. The deliberate sabotage and smears to paint a picture of "bad character".
There are some very dubious characters within government, NuLab and NuTory. They have lied, deceived and covered up serious matters. I am disgusted by them, which I sense many within NuLab also feel about certain politicians.
The "good guys" need to take a stand against this destruction of our democracy, and the force, which HAS been led by Gordon Brown. He thinks that a 3 day tour of the country, Liverpool and South Wales, to give people "reassurances" that he is the best man to lead us out of the mess he created, is a sick joke.
ON YOUR BIKE GORDON. You don't fool me one bit.
10 January, 2009 01:08
I do not make a habit of breaking the law. I pay my tax on time. So why should I worry if my DNA is on record if the government has a comprehensive data base on me. If I am constantly watched and in the future lisened to by CCTV and even have my bin bugged what harm is done as long as I havn't done anything wrong. (After xmas I put a bin out with the lid not fully closed should I go on the run). Why should I worry that when I can afford a car I will have to have a tracking device in it (for road pricing of course). If the authorities are going to make life harder for those that do not have an ID card as a 'innocent citizen' why should I care. If local authorities are going to use anti terror laws to check which schools children are sent to and that papaer boys have the right paperwork and the Government uses them against Iceland (but not Hammas) and hecklers and protestors. why should I care I am not Icelandic. Or a paper boy.
I inform the public
You leak
He has his door broke down by the state terror police.
As long as I don't join an organisation that the Government disaproves off (like the tory party) I am safe. Why should I worry.
Its for our protection. Think of what has changed in the last ten years and worry about what it will be like in another ten.
10 January, 2009 07:17
Not done anything wrong?
If you want an example of how 'they' are capable of making anything mean something else and of changing the rules to suit, take moment to read the detail of the Police Pension Regulations - especially the bits that promise a pension for officers injured in the line of duty.
You will see that injured officers were promised a pension for life if they suffered an injury that was not their fault, was permanent and so bad that they had to be required to retire.
A great promise, but the Government is now saying, 'Well, we didn't really mean that.' In the interests of 'fairness' the Home Office issued some advice (they call it guidance) to Police Authorities in their Circular 46/2004.
In Annex C to the Circular you can read this:
'Review of Injury Pensions once Officers reach Age 65
Once a former officer receiving an injury pension reaches the age of 65 they will have reached their State Pension Age irrespective of whether they are male or female. The force then has the discretion, in the absence of a cogent reason otherwise, to advise the SMP to place the former officer in the lowest band of Degree of Disablement. At such a point the former officer would normally no longer be expected to be earning a salary in the employment market.'
So, former PC Plod, you are still crippled, unable to work and now you have had the gall to live to the ripe old age of 65? You ungrateful blighter! We will just have to finish you off then. Cutting your income in half should do the trick.
Most of the forces in England and Wales have taken the Home Office guidance to heart and are enthusiatically applying it to disabled former officers.
Many former officers are facing pension cuts of over £10,000 a year.
If your readers feel strongly enough about this issue, would they please consider signing my petition, calling for the Home Office to rescind its guidance?
The petition is on the No. 10 Downing Street web site at:
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/HOC-46-2004/
Many thanks,
John McCall
10 January, 2009 13:52
"as soon as your name is given by the victim, you are recorded as a "suspect" by most police forces. If you are not then arrested, you become an "unactioned suspect"
Which is presumably what this crowd will busy themselves with ?
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/news/independent-safeguarding-date
Independent Safeguarding Authority 2009 The ISA is an independent body with its own remit and barring criteria, get ready to lose your job because of unsubstantiated tittle tattle.
11 January, 2009 05:42
To understand the future the politicians/senior police officers want, watch Demolition Man.
You *will* be ProtectServed....
11 January, 2009 17:53
Ron Todd.
You must be rather naive.
That old lie of "If you have done nothing wrong then you have nothing to fear", regarding extreme surveillance and data collection on the public, is the biggest load of "spin", EVER!
I'm not especially bothered about CCTV, if it really does keep us "safe". But databases full of personal information places people at risk as well as invades their privacy.
Are you unaware of the reality of this Orwellian "Alice in Wonderland System"? There have ALWAYS been abuses of power by those in authority, including governments. What this lot are doing has eroded our civil liberties and our democracy, but worst of all this nanny state policy, of over control and interference in the lives of others, has undermined the family and parental authority, especially of mothers; who were always the first to discipline kids, followed on by...."Just you wait until your father gets home."
Do you really want to live in an oppressive Orwellian Big Brother State? Because that is what certain people in this government want, and that is a nightmare which we should challenge and oppose. This government have tried to spread fear and paranoia to justify all sorts of draconian legislation. What they are doing is complete and utter nonsense, and not in the best interests of the people of this country.
It has been said before on other police blogs, but I will say it again. George Orwell's book 1984, was a coded WARNING for the people to oppose that kind of regime. I do feel very concerned about what may well happen, 10 or 20 years down the line. Too much state control, including knowing everything there is to know about every citizen, including their DNA profile, IS a very dangerous road to go down. All this data collection is placing vulnerable people at risk from abuses of power.
The person who came up with the science of DNA testing, was quoted in the press as saying that he very much regretted what the government have done with his concept. He never intended that it would be used to store the data of innocent people and those arrested for minor offences, particularly children.
And, as the person who REALLY came up with the concept of the Child Protection System; I too have to say that I deeply regret what the government has done with that concept. But that's what happens when people abuse others, their efforts to do good and their ideas.
As a child who suffered very serious abuse at the hands of men who abused their power and position, I should have had "nothing to fear" by telling the truth about what they had done, to myself and to others. The reality of that was, that "they" smeared my name from childhood through to adulthood, in the "Alice in Wonderland" system records. I was called all the names under the sun and more besides. A smoke screen to blame me, the victim, by abusers seeking to protect themselves.
All the data collection, including the DNA database, could easily be abused by those in authority in the future. This government may claim "Ah but we will have safeguards" to try and justify their intrusion into our lives. Yeah right, like "confidentiality" is actually achievable, given that it is human nature to gossip! It is also human nature, of the worst kind, to sometimes blame innocent others, for crimes committed by those in positions of power and authority.
"They" will act to protect themselves from prosecution, loss of job, reputation and pensions. This is a fact, which this government has covered up, about very serious matters of child abuse, including murder.
Lynne Whitely - Manchester 1956.
Lesley Moleseed Manchester 1957.
Lesley Molseed 1975 - the DNA of TWO males were found on her body and the police initially stitched up an innocent man. Then they covered it up about the animal who killed her. His partner in that crime, took all the blame for it.
This is the measure of this deceitful government.
Don't be fooled by the "If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear" nonsense. The mentality of some of the amateur snoops employed by local councils is often ignorant, biased, bigoted and rather pathetic, and can even be quite dangerous, because they get it WRONG, often.
Here's a good example. As a resident affected by a local source of pollution, I was an effective campaigner for an improvement of operational standards. The local Environmental Health Officers, now Public Protection [what a joke] came to my home with some monitoring equipment, which actually turned out to be inappropriate for the problem anyway. Whilst in my home a young P.P. Officer must have thought he was some kind of council paid "cop". His eyes were all over the place having a good look around, and then he spotted something on my kitchen work surface which got him all excited.
Trying to save money, I had bought a printer ink do it yourself refill the cartridge kit. It included a white plastic syringe, which after washing I had left on the surface to dry. He saw that and put 2+2 together and had come up with 5. Laughable really, but NOT when it was spread all around the council, and the local community that I was a "drug addict". I was treated with contempt by people in my community, including local shopkeepers. This is the reality of this Orwellian Alice in Wonderland System, where gossip and speculation, misinformation and the malice of one's enemies can actually DESTROY one's life, reputation and happiness. So please do NOT tell me that we have "nothing to fear" from government, what it has done already and its future plans.
12 January, 2009 00:39
Anon 12 January, 2009 00:39:
What exactly WAS your point? No NO, don't answer that...
12 January, 2009 17:27
You might appreciate this from a few years ago:
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/rant/panopticon-essay.html
An essay on the various technologies for surveillance and what the gvt is likely to want to do with them, and how it may well all end in tears. Our tears that is.
12 January, 2009 22:04
Anon @ 17.27 pm on the 12th Jan...
Don't answer your rather stupid question, as to "what was my point"
Try reading Ellie's post again, and then read through the comments. Try digesting what you have read, think about it all, and then reed my comment again.
The "point" should dawn on you, and if it doesn't, well, that's a bit sad, because it indicates that there's no hope for you on the path to enlightenment.....
13 January, 2009 00:54
Oops, sorry, that should have been...and then READ my comment again. ;0)
13 January, 2009 00:56
All I can say PC Bloggs, is.. Thank you. Thank you very much for this post. Spot on.
13 January, 2009 16:51
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03 April, 2009 21:47
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