Rape should be illegal...
David Cameron thinks rape legislation should be tightened. I am not quite sure what his proposals are, but I agree that a 6% conviction rate is atrocious. I can suggest various methods of improving this, but the most effective will surely be to discourage people from reporting it in the first place. Ways to accomplish this surreptitiously might be:
- Slap victims around the face until they admit they are lying.
- Tell them, "It's your word against his anyway."
- Ask, "Are you sure you didn't consent?" Some victims may not have realised that "rape" means they didn't want it.
- Use a much bigger speculum.
One commenter thinks that having a blanket goal "to improve conviction rates" is nonsensical on its own. I don't really see his point, to be honest. We should improve all rates no matter what they relate to - it's the only way to prove that the police are doing their job.
There are some pretty awful stories about victims who felt let down by the police. The comments at the bottom of the Beeb's website are informative.
The common thread running through these tales of woe is that all the victims made the same mistake: they reported their rape to the police. There are other kinds of justice, you know. And if they fail, here's one way to make sure people believe you.
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Copyright of PC Bloggs.
There are some pretty awful stories about victims who felt let down by the police. The comments at the bottom of the Beeb's website are informative.
The common thread running through these tales of woe is that all the victims made the same mistake: they reported their rape to the police. There are other kinds of justice, you know. And if they fail, here's one way to make sure people believe you.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright of PC Bloggs.
posted by PC Bloggs at 16:38
27 Comments:
Mel Phillips has an interesting comment on Cameron's remarks.
A victim also comments from personal - and harrowing - experience, showing that generalisations are risky.
Some cases also have a a political dimension.
Unfortunately.
13 November, 2007 18:00
I'm....confused :(
Are they saying too many people are being found "not guilty" ? And that's wrong?
13 November, 2007 20:39
I've posted a comment on Mel Phillips' blog because I find her comments despiccable. Ooh I'm in a tizzy now.
13 November, 2007 20:57
The shame is that loads of stupid drunken spiteful emotional shitstirring women report rapes that aren't rapes..
the Police understandably become cynical and mistrusting of the reports....
and real victims suffer.
Me - I'd imprison false rape reporters (with reductions for an early admission), sentence convicted rapists to twice as long and chop their balls off...
that should do the trick!
13 November, 2007 21:46
Cheers PCB, I read your reply on Mel Phillips' blog, and understand.
Thank you.
13 November, 2007 22:13
I've re-read MP's article and PCB's reply.
MP is of course desperate to kickstart the Tory Party into a credible opposition - as forlorn a hope as ever there was - but she has a point about contemporary British society following the Law of Human Collapse.
I don't think the current legal system, any of it, was designed to cope with that. Inevitably, serving police officers and genuine victims (of all crimes) unhappily bear the brunt.
Significantly, Alcohol emerges as a dominant factor in all of this.
It is not surprising therefore that the above report says that the government's current policy is wrong - as I think many informed individuals, including paramedics and police officers, have repeatedly stated.
On the plus side, PCB, I strongly suspect that MP will visit your blog and may even buy your book.
Whilst it won't make your job any easier, you might find it a bit refreshing if you can catch the occasional episode (on Bravo) of Walker, Texas Ranger.
Although he does have an enviable advantage in that he has a deputy who seems to do most of the paperwork.
13 November, 2007 23:19
When 85% of men accused of rape walk free something is seriously wrong with the criminal justice system of ANY country.
Rape IS NOT ALWAYS a crime of violence. It is a violent crime but ever hear of rape by fear, date rape drugs, rape by coercion, rape by extortion, we could go on and on.
To assume that men are mostly falsely accused by drunk/spiteful women is some serious bad thinking. No room for that mindset on a police department.
Even prostitutes can say no and not have a mark on her/him and even be falling-down-drunk but can still fit the elements of being a rape victim.
And yes, I am a male officer.
14 November, 2007 05:11
Someone said "better ten guilty men go free than one innocent man go to gaol" Is that not what happens in rape trials?
Is it not the case that rape is a hard crime to prove and there are always going to be a large number of guilty men walking free so that few innocent men are convicted.
I'm not getting into a numbers game but it would be dangerous to amend the rules of evidence for any particular crime to the extent that more innocent people are imprisoned. Especially for rape.
Nothing has done the reputation of the police service more damage over the years than high profile miscarriages of justice. The Birmingham 6, Guildford 4, numerous lower profile murders and so on. Was that not why PACE was introduced? To stop the police bending the rules to ensure the convction of "guilty" men.
So to get back to the question of rape. Yes any improvements in reporting and investigation should of course me made. The government will of course give the police more money to fund this won't they?
Like all crimes though there are always going to be a percentage that can't be proved.
14 November, 2007 10:25
There is no other way of saying it, rape is a vile crime and rapists are vile 'people'. I have the misfortune to have to work with them once they are convicted.
Public feeling is being abused by polititians to get votes in the election that is inevitable.
Conviction rates should be higher for all crimes including rape.
I agree with alanorei, Generalisations should be avoided in investigating cases.
14 November, 2007 10:56
Thanks Dave
PC Bloggs's comment on MP's site has provoked further comment/questions, which is good.
At least one of the commentators on MP's site has visited PC Bloggs's site, which is also good.
Crimewatch regularly features genuine rape victims.
Usually, they appear to have been attacked in a secluded place like a park or stream side or, if after dark, after choosing to walk home alone following a night out with friends (and not drunk) or are the victims of predatory mini-cab drivers and associates.
Regrettably, it appears that all that can be done now to protect future potential victims is for young women voluntarity to forgo some of their individual freedom in the above respects.
And don't copy Egeli Rasta, who sometimes sunbathed topless on Mitcham Common.
No doubt in all innocence but an assault waiting to happen, nevertheless.
It also doesn't help that tabloids are moving steadily towards full frontal full front-page female nudity.
You don't have to be a psychological profiler to guess the probable consequences.
14 November, 2007 16:03
I'm sorry, what on earth has full frontal front page nudity got to do with rape? If you think rapists target people who are topless or naked, you have misunderstood the nature of rape completely.
14 November, 2007 16:11
Of cours, David Cameron could have told the ladies in his audience that he would make it easier to convict their sons, on dubious evidence, after a drunken night of debauchery with an equally drunken woman, who feels ashamed of herself the next morning and thinks there must be some other reason for her aquiescence other than being shitfaced
14 November, 2007 17:16
""To assume that men are mostly falsely accused by drunk/spiteful women is some serious bad thinking. No room for that mindset on a police department.""
What - no room for the truth. Don't kid yourselves that every report of rape is the gods honest! Don't kid yourself that even half are !!
Just check the stats - how many reports do Officers have doubts about - how many are retracted..how many women make multiple reports, and still go out and get drunk nights later..
The shame is that the genuine victims suffer...
14 November, 2007 22:37
PC Bloggs said...
I'm sorry, what on earth has full frontal front page nudity got to do with rape? If you think rapists target people who are topless or naked, you have misunderstood the nature of rape completely.
That was not the main point of my post.
Tabloid pornography etc. was an afterthought based on evidence that this kind of material may fuel these sorts of crimes (please note the emphasis).
As in the well-documented case of Ted Bundy.
15 November, 2007 01:10
Dear Bloggsy,
one way of avoiding raping a girl is to have a wank. In fact, it's a bloody good way. It's brilliant. Without it there would be mayhem. Nearly every man in the world does it that way. Because we like our girls far too much to rape them (and therefore be killed by their brothers, assuming they'd survived the same experience).
You'll appreciate that, if that wasn't the case, your ratings would drop a bit. Because everyone now knows perfectly well that you can only do anything about someone who beats up or rapes or kills a woman after it's happened. If she tells you someone's threatened to do her in you just treat her like someone whose trying to take a faulty something-or-other back to PCWorld.
And, of course, no-one gets hurt by a comitted wanker like me. It's just too much fun having a wank on one's own. Sometimes, props are used to spice the occasion up a bit (frilly knickers made for men anyone? Or vibrators for the girlies?). So wanking is normally conducted in private, or in interested company. The whole point is that you made it all up for yourself.
But now, it appears, at least in Scotland, that it's illegal to wank. Or, at least, exploit inanimate objects (vibrators or frilly knickers, anyone again?) for the purpose. Such as your own bicycle.
What on earth is going on here? 3y probation for doing things with a bike? In Scotland? I see a grand prison build program ahead.
What is bad about shagging a bicycle, please? And why are people forced to break into someone's room to be shocked by it? Who ever heard of an innocent, corruptible person, likely to be shocked by bicycle rape, poor enough to be a weegie hostel roomer? Who didn't deserve it in any case?
Put me straight,
Confused
Geoff
15 November, 2007 01:11
I assume that the bike did`nt make a complaint otherwise it would have been a rape charge and why did`nt he get banned from riding a bike for three years? I keep expecting to wake up at any minute into a sane and reasonable world but i`m shit scared that i`m not dreaming all this.
15 November, 2007 09:08
In the past 9 years I have dealt with many accusation of rape. So far only three have ever proved to be truthfull. I still treat each case as if it is truthfull and have destroyed many lives of individual males who have been arrested dna'd swabbed and bailed having to tell their partners of the accusation. Many of whom then lose that partner. I am supprised that pc bloggs buys into the 6% leading to conviction. Of the true allegations I have dealt with all 3 have or are going to court. It disgusts me when a false allegation is made as it devalues every true vicitm and uses up valuable resources. Rape is the most serious offence next to murder (and you could argue murder is less so) that we deal with and its is utterly important to get it right every time. Its for this reason I think forces are getting it right. I think the statistic is badly written. Anyone can make any sort of accusation. Recently I have dealt with 3 cases in the past 3 months. 2 of which are the most horrific cases I have seen in 9 years. 1 of which was an attention seeking girl who wasted everyones time and whose own best friend came forward to tell the police that her friends version of events was entirely false. Before this past 6 months I had dealt with many many false accusations in fact all bar 1 other in the 8 or so years before. It does not stop me or those I work with offering the best service possible each time. It just disgusts and upsets me when i realise that these 'victims' have devalued the true victims. Its these false vicitms that make it so much harder for the true victims to come forward. I still believe far too many real rapes go un-reported and far too many false allegations are made.
15 November, 2007 10:36
Why not....
Change the law on Rape cases and allow disclosure to the jury of the follwoing facts.....
(1) If the male has been investigated for a similar crime before .. and ..
(2) If the female has made a similar allegation of rape before.
The serial date rapists who get away with it would be convicted on their second offence..and the females that keep making the allegations up could not destroy the life of another innocent male.
15 November, 2007 15:10
"Anonymous said...
Why not....
Change the law on Rape cases and allow disclosure to the jury of the follwoing facts.....
(1) If the male has been investigated for a similar crime before .. and ..
(2) If the female has made a similar allegation of rape before.
The serial date rapists who get away with it would be convicted on their second offence..and the females that keep making the allegations up could not destroy the life of another innocent male.
15 November, 2007 15:10"
So obvious and sensible it would`nt have a snowballs chance in hell of being adopted.
15 November, 2007 21:57
You could always adopt this sort of victim orientated approach.
16 November, 2007 01:09
I wasn't going to post on this anymore but feel that this case merits an exception. It rather transcends all discussion and I therefore wish to extend to the Met every success in apprehending the criminal - who has, I recall, also featured on Crimewatch.
Observe that not all the victims are actually assaulted, it appears, but even in these instances, since the majority are elderly, the chances of some of them dying prematurely as a result of their ordeals are high, as contributors will know.
If anyone contributing here lives in this fiend's area, it could be your elderly relative next.
I only hope this attacker's namesake doesn't decide to emigrate.
If he was in his 20s in 1980, he could still be a threat, even if he's been inactive for a long time.
Again, one can only wish the Southern California police every success in their on-going efforts to arrest this other fiend.
See also here, as an incentive to take any professing victim seriously, until proven otherwise.
16 November, 2007 16:24
Glad they put a caption under the picture of the cop on scene in the Night Stalker story - otherwise it could have been mistaken for a picture OF the Night Stalker!
16 November, 2007 21:35
Indeed
The nearest equivalent in this part of the world that I can think of (apart from the above), though he never actually killed anyone, was the so-called Beast of Jersey.
He was caught and is now dead.
His capture was actually fortuitous, similar I think to that of Peter Sutcliffe, being before the days of DNA profiling. It is recounted in The Beast of Jersey - the Final Chapter by Ward Rutherford, ISBN 1-870544-14-5.
Rutherford shows that the criminal's alleged obsession with the powers of evil may have been greatly exaggerated, i.e. again, generalisation across the board isn't realistic.
Most, if not all of his crimes were physically non-violent but horrific nevertheless. They did include the threat of violence.
One can only have the greatest admiration for the two officers who effected the arrest, PCs John Riseborough and Tom McGinn.
And one continues to hope and pray for a breakthrough in these other cases.
16 November, 2007 22:44
Simple solution to deter rape:
make all sexual intercourse outside a registered relationship an offence, with all parties involved treated to a flogging;
BUT where the woman claims that she did not agree to the intercourse, and where the intercourse is then proved, sentence the penetrator to death, by castration.
Should do a lot for the population figures as well...
Amelia
19 November, 2007 12:04
Re: Amelia's comment,
Used to be the spirit of English Common Law, even if not the letter:
"Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled; but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge" St Paul, Hebrews 13:4, first penned about 60 AD.
(Paul was executed by beheading in Rome in 66 or 67 AD. Writing stuff like the above, that isn't surprising.)
But w.r.t. the law, maybe what goes around comes around. Let's hope so.
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