About as clear as...
The trial of the Metropolitan Police has started. Interspersed with what we already know about fundamental failings in the police, some real gems have come out of today's opening speech.
Such as: "One armed officer put a gun into a colleague's chest and a Tube driver was chased down a tunnel." The addition of a monkey playing the cymbals and the picture would be complete.
It makes you wonder if we'll ever really know what happened that day. Which makes ME wonder why, if events that are witnessed by ten police officers and twenty commuters can still be as clear as mud, I had Mr Barndon on the phone for an hour today asking me why I haven't caught the be-hoodied youth who stole his bicycle.
I think we should all give the Met a break. It must be hard enough to keep up their detection and arrest rates in such a big city, without us expecting them not to gun down random citizens as they go.
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Copyright of PC Bloggs.
Such as: "One armed officer put a gun into a colleague's chest and a Tube driver was chased down a tunnel." The addition of a monkey playing the cymbals and the picture would be complete.
It makes you wonder if we'll ever really know what happened that day. Which makes ME wonder why, if events that are witnessed by ten police officers and twenty commuters can still be as clear as mud, I had Mr Barndon on the phone for an hour today asking me why I haven't caught the be-hoodied youth who stole his bicycle.
I think we should all give the Met a break. It must be hard enough to keep up their detection and arrest rates in such a big city, without us expecting them not to gun down random citizens as they go.
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Copyright of PC Bloggs.
posted by PC Bloggs at 17:48
31 Comments:
If you fancy seeing what it's actually like rather than commenting from afar Bloggs I'm sure I can sort out an attachment, after all our esteemed OCU Commander says we need more female officers as tey're a 'calming influence'
01 October, 2007 18:30
I can't believe that you even considered that the court would think the 10 police officers statements would be considered truth anyway!!!
The great thing about courts is, though they accept that no two witnesses ever see the same thing (because if they do they OBVIOUSLY conspired and made their statements up) when there are differences in what the witnesses have seen there is always someone ready to stand up and say "AH HA!! you see, obviously nothing happened at all and they're all clearly making it up!!"
01 October, 2007 19:15
Give a girl a gun? Are you mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
01 October, 2007 20:09
""if events that are witnessed by ten police officers and twenty commuters can still be as clear as mud""
Too true - an old bobby once told me - keep your witnesses to a minimum.
If you are the only witness and you saw "X" drop the drugs - then "X" dropped the drugs.
If another PC was there but admits to not seeing it ( despite the fact he may have been looking the other way) then there is confusion.
Confusion=aquittal
01 October, 2007 21:31
Anyway way you look at it the police shot a Mexican in cold blood. They were *so* white and gun ho they killed a latino simply because he *looked* too "multicultural" for them. Try and and spin it any other way and you'tr living in cloud cucchooo land (to be fair most of the *white dudes* actually do live there)
02 October, 2007 00:10
Ronsumer I'm not sure if you'e left yourself logged on and some crack addled idiot has posted as you but what planet do you live on? Firstly and fundamentally Menezes was Brasilian not Mexican, if you can't get something as simple as that correct then you haven't really been paying attention while teacher doled out the crayons have you? Secondly, the assertion that they killed him because he looked too multicultural? In the words of the great philosopher Jean Paul Sartre 'Are you mental?' I've re checked the ACPO manual again just to be sure and it definetly doesn't say anything about being allowed to shoot people because they're multicultural. I know this for sure because I've had diversity training and I'm sure they would have mentioned it.
02 October, 2007 05:30
Ronsumer....
"cucchooo land (to be fair most of the *white dudes* actually do live there)"
Erm, I think it is you who is the racist...not the MET Police.
Ricky G
Oh and it's a cuckoo mate not a cucchooo
02 October, 2007 08:24
CO19 - re your first reply, I think you might be missing the humour/sarcasm in Bloggsy's post?
02 October, 2007 09:13
An interesting article maybe found here.
http://www.eutruth.org.uk/
signseupolice.doc
Cressida Dick features.
It will be interesting to see how the case progresses.
02 October, 2007 13:36
I dont think this is about male or female Police officers co19, its about was it a complete cock up from start to finnish, as stated the truth we will probably never know, but what we do know is that a innocent man is dead, killed by British Police officers.
Its about accountability, I believe Cressida Dick is now promoted and persuing her career, with a slight stumble, but ever onwards and upwards as they say.
The sad thing is that there will be no Senior individual held to account just an organisation who will write the cheque
02 October, 2007 13:48
To both anonymous posters I haven't missed the sarcasm/humour in Bloggs post it's that which I object to, we as a force/service cry foul when we believe the public at large have an unrealistic understanding of what we do and the resources we have to do it but when one of our own decries the effort of officers who are willing to put themselves in harm way and make judgements on their acions with the benefit of hindsight then I do feel aggreived.
I was working on 7/7 and 21/7 and every day between then and for some weeks after, I know how stretched the service was, where were you Bloggs?
02 October, 2007 17:37
If I had intended to attack the individual officers concerned, I would have. My sarcasm is only aimed at the Met at large, as it has frequently been before.
I'm sorry I wasn't clear, but I do sometimes criticise the police in my blog... just a tad.
Nothing is above criticism. Nothing is above sarcasm and humour. Nothing is sacred.
As long as it's funny, it's fair game. And what could be funnier than slaughtering civilians in public!
02 October, 2007 20:28
And from your safe seat whereever you are judging people with the benefit of distance and hindsight I'm sure you must find the Met and CO19 in particular hilarious.
As I said before Bloggs come walk in our shoes for a while, see how you like being judged.
02 October, 2007 21:48
CO 19 you seem to have a touch of the 'noble cause syndrome'the police are not above the law. The bottom line if you pull the trigger then you should be accountable in law for your actions not 'oops sorry, will try better next time'If you can't handle this then hang up your gun or if you think that you are above the law of the land then I suggest you need to look at yourself.
Oh and I bet you refused the overtime payments out of a sense of duty!!!
03 October, 2007 08:07
Anonymous I don't think anyone much less the police are above the law and I deal with the reality that if I do shoot someone at the very least I will be suspended for a lenghty period of time while an organisation like the IPCC look for evidence of wrongdoing,negligence or poor judgement on my part. Months and maybe years later I could be judged by a jury over a decision I had literally milliseconds to make but that's as it should be and I accept that as only fair in the society we live in.
What I won't accept are cheap shots either from a biased press hungry to sensationalise in an attempt to sell papers or a keyboard critic who hasn't been in a situation where a life or death decision has to be taken in a situation where all the information isn't absolute.
03 October, 2007 17:19
CO19 could you just clarify, how many British police officers to date have been brought before a court of law for shooting a civilian?
Don't wish to demean the work you guys and gals carry out; but honestly you are never going to have to face a jury no matter how badly you cock up.
03 October, 2007 17:57
Anon I'm glad you're sure no officer will ever be charged with a criminal offence resulting from a police shooting in this country, I'm sure that will be great comfort to the officers who've spent years of their lives suspended facing murder charges while the IPCC, CPS and the DPS pull apart every second of whatever incident brought them to their attention in the first place.
I'm glad tomorrow I can go to work knowing if I make a genuine mistake I won't face a murder charge. Really, it may ever save me that half second of doubt whether the gun is real or not before I pull the trigger
03 October, 2007 21:20
co19. For someone who is supossed to be the picture of coolness under stress, you appear to be extreemly easy to wind up.
I reckon they do not let you out with anything more dangerous than a yellow band around your hat, and a book of püarking tickets, but your aspirations are getting on top of the medication.
Bundesmarine Polizei.
04 October, 2007 08:40
CO19 I suggest that you go and lie down watch a copy of SWAT and gather your self together, maybe get in some alpha male bonding during the film. CO19 never assume that you are the only person in the world that has pointed a gun at anybody, it is a path many have trodden before you and many will after you.
PS this is not Bundesmarine Polizei
04 October, 2007 16:03
To both anon posters I'd love to discuss comparabe experiences with you and how you deal with them but as you're both too shy to reveal your backround I'm unable. Or is there any experience to compare?
And as you both seem to be completly missing my point maybe re read may be in order, though I fear anything short of a blank piece of paper and some crayons would fail. As for being wound up no, I speak my mind, always have done but at the end of the day it's just a job
04 October, 2007 17:12
CO19, so exactly how many police officers have been charged with criminal offences after shooting members of the public?
Usually providing facts are more helpful than righteous indignation.
My name is Nick, I just don't have a Google account, which is why my post was anonymous. Is CO19 really your name? Your parents must have quite a weird sense of humour.
It is upsetting that you see your role as 'just a job'. When you have the power of life and death over innocent civilians perhaps you should treat the responsibility more seriously.
No I have never had to shoot anyone, no I am not in the police. However, I have had to carry firearms in defence of the realm - and yes British servicemen are prosecuted when they shoot civilians.
04 October, 2007 20:10
Anonymous – Nick. Let’s say for the sake of argument that no police officer has ever been charged with criminal offences for shooting an “innocent” civilian. What is it exactly that you’re trying to prove? Some kind of establishment conspiracy? If it really was that easy to get away with facilitating a meeting with the Creator of some of society’s pond life, I’d expect there to be several hundred police shooting per day. If you’re truly interested why not contact the IPCC and ask the same question. If the answer from them is none, then ask them why. It really is that simple. Trolling here for reactions is a bit childish.
04 October, 2007 21:16
co 19 blackrat check these links out maybe this is the reason no prosecutions have taken place
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3973261.stm
http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=437&id=1271162004
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1371497,00.html
05 October, 2007 08:09
Blackrat,
I only questioned CO19's assertion that:
"Months and maybe years later I could be judged by a jury"
To which CO19 then asseted that I was only safe when using crayons.
I know that CO19's assetions might carry some weight in your mind, but to me his arguments seem a little lightweight.
I don't know why you mention conspiracy, I never brought up the subject. I merely requested that CO19 evidence his assertion that he might have to face a jury.
In my lifetime, I do not remember any policeman facing trial for shooting an innocent civilian; including a young child hiding under bed sheets, a man sat in traffic in his mini, a naked man in his own bedroom and a Brazilian electrician.
Please don't belittle yourself by trying to imply that these people were not 'innocent'.
Nick
05 October, 2007 10:26
fight fight fight,,,,,
Bloggsey ? you single again ?
05 October, 2007 18:09
To the Anons who mentioned that no police officer has ever been held accountable for their actions.
Harry Stanley - The offices faced two independant enquires, Coroners court which I hasten to add had a jury.
Te shooting of a black male in Brixton when he placed a cigarette lighter in the shape of a gun to a mans head - Again a coroners court with a jury. High court when the family complained.
Yes an innocent man was shot in Stockwell. Yes mistakes were made. But that is the point a mistake.
I recall CO19 officers anding in their tickets to carry firearms and the big outcry from the rest of the public because they weren't being protected.
I take my hat off to officers from CO19 and the equivilent in other forces.
Rather than blaming the officers for the shooting, sit and take a minute to think. They believed he had a bomb around is body. They approached him and put theselves into harms way for the likes of you.
To quote from a FEW GOOD MEN;
Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
06 October, 2007 10:28
Anon, you do know that the guy you have just quoted from A Few Good Men is the baddie of the film. He's insane, and responsible for the death of an innocent young soldier. Oh dear.
06 October, 2007 22:07
"The truth? You can't handle the truth!"
06 October, 2007 22:08
Yes I know he was the baddie but its what he said that matters.
The point I was making is that whilst everyone is blaming the officers for shooting Jean Charles, without them putting their lives on the line, who knows what would have happened in the days afterwards.
Without doubt, the shooting of an innocent man, has saved lives.
Yes, I work and live in London, I use public transport. Tese men and women, put themselves into harms way day in and day out for the likes of all of us. We should be proud and grateful to them.
To all the anons who have been critising the shooting, I ask, what would you have done?
Before you answer, consider Madrid.
07 October, 2007 09:37
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