This is the official blog of Sgt Ellie Bloggs, a real live police sergeant on the front line of England. It's not the official opinion of my police force, but all the facts I recount are true, and are not secrets. If they don't want me blogging about it, they shouldn't do it. PS If you don't pay tax, you don't pay my salary.


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Wednesday, April 22, 2009

Sigh
















Is anyone else depressed? The Budget shows our country spiralling into a cesspit of debt,
everyone thinks the police are a bunch of morons, the police ARE a bunch of morons, and no matter how much bloggers harp on and on about the insidious bureaucratic ways in which the government has ruined our police fo
rce, nobody ever seems to hear us.

For example, last week I responded to a commenter referring to the lack of epaulettes worn by some officers at the G20. To quote Nick Hardwick, the general consensus is that officers must have been "
expecting trouble". I cannot deny, I have come across one or two colleagues in my career who deliberately fail to put their epaulettes on, or cover them with a coat, as they are fed up of people taking down their collar number to complain about them. A tiny proportion of those colleagues are aware that they consistently behave in a bullying manner and are hoping to avoid complaints by concealing their identity. Most of them are just fed up of being the one whose number gets nabbe
d when they had nothing to do with it. However I have never met a colleague who will not give out his/her collar number if requested by a complaining member of the public. We all know that it's a no-brainer - you have to give your number out unless you have a VALID reason to fear terrorist reprisal.

But what the media/public/Nick Hardwick seem to fail to understand, is that I have simply dozens of colleagues who repeatedly fail to wear their collar number for one of the following reasons:
  • The epaulettes are on their other jacket.
  • They have just taken their body armour off and have not transferred the epaulettes onto their shirt yet (it's uncomfortable to wear both sets at once).
  • Blood/urine/faeces spilled onto their coat including shoulders and they are awaiting a replacement.
  • They rushed straight out to a job and forgot them.
  • They threw on a coat as it started to rain and the epaulettes are on the garment underneath.
A glaring recurrent theme in the above is that most forces are too cheap to buy their officers enough pairs of epaulettes to cover these eventualities and we change garb so often throughout the day it's easy to leave them on the wrong thing. None of the above are good excuses, but if you foster a police force where discipline is considered bullying, drill/parade are banished as politically incorrect, there are no penalties for misdemeanour until you are suddenly fired for a minor error, morale is at an all-time low due to pay dispute, the role has been emasculated and we are dejected at the utter lunacy of the tasks we do day on day... well suffice it to say that it isn't at the forefront of my mind whether my epaulettes are in place when I rush out to do battle.

Of course the sergeants and inspectors should have lined up their serials before attending a high profile event like the G20, and checked they were all presentable with epaulettes in place. But the fact that they didn't does not reflect some sinister intention to beat up innocents and hide from justice. It just reflects the standard of the training and motivation we are given. Apart from anything, there's always someone in your team who will see you on TV up to your antics and phone the anonymous Corruption Line. Or a few dozen friends and family who will readily identify you. So just covering your shoulders is not going to prevent your prosecution.

Let's face it, the press don't care about the above. And nor, it appears, does Sir Paul Stephenson, who has jumped on the bandwagon with all four feet.

A similar recent story is that of poor little Bethney Townsend, who died after a kidney disorder was not diagnosed. In all the headlines, the GP is blamed for "failing" to do a blood test, but if you read on, the GP referred the child straight to hospital. When the hospital sent the child back, the GP tried to do the test herself but couldn't, so she referred her to a specialist, who wasn't available for a month. In that month, Bethney died. The GP's fault? Or a catchy headline?

In a side-note, this blogger freely admits failing to wear her epaulettes before blogging, in a deliberate attempt to conceal her identity and that of her force. Perhaps the offending officers at the G20 were simply trying to save their force embarassment...

And finally, it isn't all bad news. The below picture would have been unthinkable 10 or 20 years ago. So we are getting somewhere.









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'Diary of an On-Call Girl' is available in some bookstores and online.

96 Comments:

Anonymous Adrian P said...

Pull up a chair :-

The Obama / Brown Deception HQHere is where we are headed :-

Endgame, Blueprint for Global Enslavement

23 April, 2009 05:47

 
Anonymous Kay said...

I wish I lived in your constabulary area. I am a MOP with an obsession about police. I am regularly asked to account for myself by the police and on these occasions always request a stop and account form. I am probably successful in receiving one at the scene about 5% of the time. If my request is refused (Usually with the excuse I don't have a blank form, I have to go or I have 12 months to give you the form, occasionally with a f*** off and stop wasting our time!) I always ask for the collar number so that I can formally request a form in writing. Sometimes this is given, sometimes I can see it. On SEVERAL other occasions though, they have refused to tell me and it's either covered or they have physically blocked me from seeing it. On at least 3 occassions the police have used force against me in order to prevent me from seeing their number! One of those I was thrown to the floor and pinned down! If I don't succeed in obtaining their collar number then I note the registration number of their vehicle and the time and location then attend a police station ASAP requesting the officers details. This sometimes takes a lot of persistence on my behalf. If that fails, I ask my local inspector to find out for me, this sometimes takes months!
I have successfully taken one police officer through formal disciplinary procedures for refusing to give me a form and being physically aggressive when I tried to read his collar number. Although the chief inspector has said he should have given me the form and I've formally requested it several times - I STILL haven't received it!!!!
All of this takes up literally hours of my time. Receiving the form isn't so important to me. I just don't believe the police should be allowed to get away with being so corrupt and refusing to co-operate with legal procedures.

23 April, 2009 07:07

 
Blogger Constable Confused.com said...

Kay,

not being funny or pedantic or anything but why are you regularly stopped by the police?

I know in the hole that I work in we usually only regularly stop area targets/offenders. I am not suggesting that you are one of those so please don't accuse me of that.

You write eloquently and being nosey (it's my job) I wondered why you received attention.

Regards.

23 April, 2009 07:32

 
Blogger Virtual Supply said...

The problem when you issue officers kit and equipment, for many, they believe it’s a gift with choices. They believe they can wear their own pants, or boots, and even shirts. A lot of PC’s do not treat the expensive equipment with care, even when they know it is in limited supply. I know some Bobbies are exceptionally proud of their kit and clean it to a point where it is wearing out, others, throw it on and want to throw it away when it gets dirty. Hey, I can show you HiViz Jackets that are not fit for tractor covers, they are so dirty, and we have been expected to handle them for replacement when the uniform rotation comes around. My Ex would happily push his HiViz through the washing machine and re-spray it as needed, always looked smart.


Shoulders: Sliders or tabs, I have to admit the force I am in has had the best solution in its hands, and missed it as it slipped by. Two sets of Basic sliders, cotton, embroidered, simple, washable, nearly indestructible, designed to stay on the shirt or pullover regardless. The second pair, described as a slider made to a heavier pattern, non metallic but with metallic thread making the numbers and or pips, bath stars, laurels, chevrons etc. Designed to be a part of a jacket, slip on coat, vest or over-coat. The trick that was really missed was to separate our thinking from 1950’s logic to something a little closer to home. Our management did not have the ability to argue for, and win, a better clothing budget for our Force. We could not afford the best concept for police identification. We had to go for a cheap, wrinkle when washed, thread tearing poor copy quality slider. (But we did give each officer two of them, with their own numbers on, (one for the left and one for the right shoulder). We then issued them with shirts and hiviz with no way to attach them. (It was a temporary solution, honest!)


So our failings are easy to identify:-

1) We do not train young officers to look after their kit, nor do we update training for the more established officers.

2) Knowing we don’t teach them respect for their clothing, we allow them to wear whatever is comfortable, so morning parades are a thing of the past as each officers wears whatever they feel best in.

3) Because we know officers do not look after their equipment, we do not have a budget for an endless supply to replace lost or damaged items of clothing. We know some officers clothing has ended up on eBay, and some items such as Stab Vests have been recovered from another county, while the person issued the stab vest never seems to come forward to say they have lost theirs, they simply borrow a mates as needed.

4) We do not have one policy to control the look of officers on the beat or on tasking, we have hundreds.


At one time, the station sergeant kind of covered those points above, and every copper knew that to cross the Sergeant meant more work, extra duties, and less jollies. I think the Sergeant went the same way as the hospitals Matron, became a paper pusher in some office until management realised they cost too much and replaced them with something cheaper, less experienced and with no growl or teeth. (Then replaced that person, with a civilian)


On another note, I recall suggesting sadly, that I hoped GMP would find something at one location or another after arresting a dozen terrorists. Sadly, they either did not have the skills in place to detect and locate the evidence, or, the terrorists were so capable, they managed to hide the evidence completely! Easter came and went and shoppers carried on happy knowing they were safe from harm. It leaves so many questions, like, why did Bob Quick go so quickly, was it, as I am beginning to believe, to avoid the embarrassment?


Good article Blogsy.


VS

http://virtualsupply.blogspot.com/

23 April, 2009 07:36

 
Blogger thinblueline said...

kay,
those "FORMS" often enter the black hole of filing to the intel department and once placed on computer systems are destroyed, when people request them during the year we just issue a copy from the system

Some places keep these forms but realsiticly even if they did with the amount of people we speak to its a very large pile.

Oh btw we dont issue forms if we just speak to you...

23 April, 2009 07:55

 
Anonymous Dr Melvin T Gray said...

Devoting much time to daydreaming excuses for covering up identification numbers, leaves your credibility in tatters, Ellie. Better to raise eyebrows with 'the dog ate my homework' than to raise lips with 'alien abductions'.

23 April, 2009 08:18

 
Anonymous Antipodean said...

As a copper from Australia, I don't have a problem when people ask for my ID number (which is embroidered on both my epaulettes just below the rank chevrons). I happily say it to them and let them read it.

However, what I won't do is give them a piece of paper or my pen to write it down with (like they always ask). Not because I'm frightened they might complain, but I hardly want someone touching my pen or throwing it and the notebook over a fence (again; I was young).

The responses I give vary...

"I'm not a stationery store, sir."
"I've come prepared with my own, perhaps you should have thought ahead too."
"I'm only obliged to give it to you, I'm not obliged to help you remember it."

I laugh as they repeat it again and again to help them remember it, secure in the knowledge that they will do no such thing as with each iteration a number is transposed or remembered wrongly.

The BEST response I heard was on a ride-along in the US (Chicago, as it happens). The officer was getting something to eat at a McDonalds and some nobber took offence to that. He demanded the officer's badge number and was rude and obnoxious about it.

"I want your *&^$ing badge number!" screams the nobber.
"It'll be on the arrest report." says the officer and claps him in irons, drags him out to the patrol car, dumps him in the back and goes back to finish ordering his meal.

As for hiding-your-epaulettes-means-malice-aforethought, surely covering-your-face-at-a-protest-means-malice-aforethought as well?

Just as an aside, people can demand your stop and search form if you ask them their name?

In Australia, I don't have to fill out a damned thing if I speak to someone on the footpath, except write it down in my notebook.

If I want to let our intel people know that I spoke to someone, I can fill out a form. But, its purpose to to let US know what HE was doing, not the other way around.

No wonder UK coppers are beating a path to Australia.

23 April, 2009 11:49

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“I have never met a colleague who will not give out his/her collar number if requested by a complaining member of the public. We all know that it's a no-brainer - you have to give your number out unless you have a VALID reason to fear terrorist reprisal.”
Although the person asking is obnoxious and rude, what is the justification for refusing to give his number?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/17/police-identification-g20
Personally I would have been seriously tempted to tell the person asking the questions to FOAD.


Joseph k.

23 April, 2009 12:07

 
Anonymous PC Michael Pinkstone said...

I don't find the epaulette issue particularly alarming. It wouldn't have made much difference if the officers concerned in the G20 protests, for example, had some form of ID tattooed on their foreheads, or emblazoned across their backsides - the media frenzy surrounding the assault allegations and subsequent ACPO hand-washing - Pontius Pilate style - would have been exactly the same. No epaulettes is merely a side issue, like a limp and sorry-looking salad next to a mighty steak.

23 April, 2009 15:23

 
Anonymous R/T said...

Crikey, guys! Just put your epaulettes on. Maybe it's because we have a bottomless pit of £££ down in Metroland but most my buddies and me have about a half dozen sets. And we have to pin the (wonderful, smart, traditional, metal) numbers on ourselves. I hate embroidered numbers. So there!

23 April, 2009 15:23

 
Anonymous Retired Sgt said...

Although I hate to use the phrase"Back to Basics" this is precisely what we need in the police
1.Basic discipline including drill parades and inspection at what now passes for training school
2.Proper parades at the start of shift to check equipment etc-yes I know you and the Sgt can check each others as you are the only 2 on duty
3.Is not failing to look after police property a discipline offence but in reality the failure to look after kit is just a reflection of morale and poor management
4.How about some civilian staff who say "Certainly thats no problem you can have extra epaulettes as yours are blood soaked etc..."

23 April, 2009 18:05

 
Anonymous harry roberts said...

recent movements of a vicious murderer:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1184614595?bctid=20486073001

23 April, 2009 18:33

 
Blogger Metcountymounty said...

woudl that be the same Harry Roberts who cut off an 80 year old mans fingers to steal his rings during a burglary a couple of years before killing 3 Police officers?

23 April, 2009 18:48

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Comment from Retired Sgt. is ever practical and worthy of deep reflection from colleagues and civilians.

23 April, 2009 19:05

 
Anonymous Retired Sgt said...

Dr Gray-to help disabuse you of any conspiracy theory about hiding numbers before I retired a 17 year old supplies clerk who couldnt understand why police officers should have epaulettes and numbers on every piece of clothing so submitted a suggestion(via the Force Suggestion scheme9 that by only issuing 2 pairs of epaulettes the foece could save a couple of bob.This was enthusiastically supported by non police managers and a 12 yr old Supt and it became force policy.Now here are some reasons why you need several pairs of epaulettes-
1.A drunk has just deposited his Beef Madras over you.This may/may not have previously been ingested.
2.A junkie has just spat/squirted the contents of a used syringe/smeared a used condom/sanitary towel on you
3.The victim of a road accident/assault/stabbing has just left part of his brain/guts/bodily fluids on you
4.A mentalist who has just slashed his wrists decides to keep you/paramedics at bay by squirting his blood from a pumping artery in your direction.
5.It got ripped off during a fight and is now proudly displayed on a bedroom wall somewhere.
6.It just doesnt fit the bit of kit you have ben issued with.
Ah you say why not order another pair-you havent worked in the police have you?Firstly you will need to fill in form XXXX and a report explaining why you allowed these things to happen then your Sgt will have to report why he/she allowed you to allow these things to happen ditto the Insp.This is then passed to the admin clerk who depending on whether he/she likes/hates you may/may not send the form to FHQ via snail mail and the clerk in the stores may/may not expidite the order.This is why you will very often see coppers wearing assorted epaulettes as they have hung onto any old ones they might have.
Perhaps dear Dr you could write to your local CC and ask him/her how many sets of epaulettes their officers are issued with and how long replacement takes....

23 April, 2009 19:16

 
Anonymous Retired Sgt said...

I forgotto add that all these examples happened to me or my team so they are not made up.
The clerk subsequently received a £5 Tesco voucher...

23 April, 2009 19:18

 
Anonymous Retired Sgt said...

Kay-you say you have an obsession with the police.
May I suggest that you develop an obsession with Doctors as they will probably be of more use to you than a police officer...

23 April, 2009 19:20

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where does Kay see all these Police Officers, I have not seen one walking around for years.

23 April, 2009 20:11

 
Blogger Paul said...

The one that keeps coming up and drives me insane is the "Public Sector Pensions" crap.

I PAY for my damn pension. Its not free and if it is a good scheme then all well and good.

Right back to Epaulettes people.

23 April, 2009 21:37

 
Anonymous Kay said...

Constable Confused - There are a few reasons I regularly get stopped and checked out. Firstly, I work night shift and stay in 'night-mode' over the weekend. My hobby is to go driving round looking for police, then watching whatever is going on from a distance. I do not interfere or cause problems for the police, I simply like watching how they work. This means they see me a LOT! I'm a 'suspicious' character 'hanging around'. Also, due to petrol prices, I spend more time walking at night now and the police will either stop to check I'm OK or to ask why I'm walking around a housing estate in the middle of the night.
Secondly, I have a driving history. I used to drive like a lunatic and in the past have had several driving convictions. Therefore I'm regularly checked up on in my car. In this respect the system has worked and I understand I can't get away with it anymore, so am a much better driver as a result.
Thirdly, I regularly take my friend's son (14 years old) out with me overnight at the weekend. The boy is home tutored and has difficulties socialising. He is happy in my company and I'm keeping him away from other bad influences. The police regularly stop to check on his welfare as he is so young and out at night.
Lastly, I have mental health problems and I'm afraid due to the significant failings of the health system, the police are often left to pick up the pieces when I lose my head. I'm sure that's a story any constable is familiar with! It is thanks to the police that I now have some psychiatric support, but it's too little, too late. I have a long way to go!
Thank you for asking, rather than simply jumping to conclusions!

23 April, 2009 21:49

 
Anonymous sto girl said...

"My hobby is to go driving round looking for police, then watching whatever is going on from a distance."

Not good. Not, not good.

By the way, we don't give out forms for Stop & Account any more, just Stop & Search.

23 April, 2009 22:08

 
Anonymous Mac said...

MTG

In our force we are issued one set of blue epaulettes a year. Not automatically but only if you remember to claim. There are 3 bits of uniform they go on. So it takes 3 years to get a full set (but the oldest ones are barely readable - you can wash them but the embroidery shrinks more than the blue bit and they wrinkle up.). We also get issued with one set of yellow epaulettes per year but have two different 'weights' of hi vis jacket. If you get promoted you have to start again because the rank designation is also emroidered. You do the maths.

Don't forget that every bit of police kit was supplied by the lowest tender.

No one's claiming that's what happened at G20 because none of us know yet, but what Ellie says above is the everyday reality of it.

24 April, 2009 01:10

 
Anonymous PC In Leeds said...

Did anyone notice Obama shook hands with the cop and Brown didn't! What an idiot... Obama 1 Brown 0!

I think the main reason why police are feeling down is we do our job come rain, snow, wind and ice. If someone calls, MOST of the time we're there (but there'll always be the story of a 2 day wait!) We do this so other don't have to. We fight the drunks at 3am, so someone doesn't get hurt. We chase the Car thef so i can get your car back or chase the burglar and when he puts up a fight restrain him.
I don't like the violent side, because it's paperwork, invesigations and necessity. BUT thats life. It's going to go TOO far and police will end up standing on a line, bottles thrown and we'll be ordered to run away! Good luck society!

24 April, 2009 01:33

 
Blogger Constable Confused.com said...

Thanks Kay,

not going to criticize but you are a bit of an anachronism. Firtstly you claim and abuse of power from the police for not giving you stop forms when you are checked. You then state that you are frequently seen acting a bit sus around incidents.

You then thank the police for getting medical help?

Ah well, fighting with the police for a stop form when you admit to sus behaviour and subsequently get stopped.

Take care Kay and hope the road shortens.

Regards.

24 April, 2009 07:49

 
Anonymous R/T said...

I think we've all met Kay, haven't we?

24 April, 2009 08:04

 
Anonymous Dr Melvin T Gray said...

Dear Mac and R/T,
You are consistent if nothing else. Your blind enthusiasm for a harmful police disposition is harnessed to bullying/insulting dozens of civilians visiting this and other police blogs. You cannot resist any opportunity afforded to exercise your dislike of the public and your profile is well noted.

Such profiles are currently of intense interest to reformers. Perhaps the only purpose served in reminding you of Nick Hardwick's "police are our servants and not our masters" is to point out the futility of belated bleatings. As you will no doubt witness in the case of Mr Hardwick, efforts to hold on to his post will no more successful than a profusion of later apologies. A greater priority is the rapid removal of individual police officers identified as destructive elements in a vital public service.

24 April, 2009 08:28

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes you're right, there might be any reasons for not wearing epaulettes but in your heart of hearts you know there were some so and so's up for a ruck, and enjoying it.

24 April, 2009 13:05

 
Anonymous Mac said...

MTG,

What has talking about the quality and number of epaluettes got to do with my attitude to the public??

For the record I have the utmost respect for most members or the public, who just want to get on with their honest lives without anyone getting 'in their faces' either metaphorically or literally. My contempt is for all the policticians/senior officers and over the top critics (who scare the former two groups into being so risk averse the service is paralysed)who bewteen them have completely f**ked up the service we are able to provide those people.


Anon 13.05.
I think I indicated that I agree with your point, but Ellie was just posting about the wider day to day issues at work - which is when her posts are best.

We can keep dragging everything back to the G20 ad infinitum if you want, but it's getting boring.

24 April, 2009 17:47

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NO MALICE AFORETHOUGHT AND VOMIT ON TAGS AGAIN.

"Can't wait to bash some long haired hippys up @ the G20!"

(Facebook quote from PC Rob Ward, Enfield, Ist April 2009.)

24 April, 2009 18:12

 
Blogger thespecialone said...

Anyone who posts anything on facebook is stupid. It is just (mostly) young stupid people being brave. Look at the number of girls who post pics of themselves wearing next to nothing saying things like 'too many boys not enough time'.

Im sorry but this PC is just a stupid idiot. Yet the press will now make out it is what all police really think they wanted to do. And the lefties will pounce on this as proof that police are a bunch of thugs. How many of them have posted/said that they intend to cause as much damage/mayhem as possible and this never gets mentioned in the media.

I suggest this PC gets a bollocking from his skipper and grows up.

24 April, 2009 20:25

 
Blogger Constable Confused.com said...

MTG,
was going to reply on this but it turned into a post on my own.

Regards.

24 April, 2009 22:40

 
Blogger Virtual Supply said...

Just another update. I see Gloucester are not demanding the pensioner pay for the door they battered down, and Styrathclydes finest are in the news.

http://virtualsupply.blogspot.com/

VS

25 April, 2009 10:12

 
Anonymous Retired Sgt said...

Kay
Hope you keep well and perhaps you could video a police officer being kind to a puppy or something-please
Pc Rob Ward-if you had been one of mine you would now be MR Rob Ward

25 April, 2009 17:24

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

if you read some of the comments by colleagues on blogs in the US Obama does not like cops so we have to assume either they are all lying or shock and horror he is a manipulative politician taking advantage of a good photo opportunity

25 April, 2009 19:42

 
Blogger Dr Zen said...

Man, you win the prize for this week's copper special pleading.

The guy who smashed Tomlinson had his face covered and no numbers. Don't tell me: it's dusty out on the streets of London.

This is why we don't trust you: you cover up for each other and make excuses. You aren't the trusted bobbies of the Blue Lantern. You don't ever see on these police blogs that people were delighted when the police showed up. You are greeted, on the whole, with suspicion and fear. Part of that isn't your fault: you didn't criminalise drugs and you don't ask to get involved in our petty disputes.

BTW, Aussie copper, your arrogance is typical of Aussie cops, who are mostly despised by the populace, who have a soft spot for the villains, from whom you're pretty much indistinguishable.

26 April, 2009 05:34

 
Anonymous Dr Melvin T Gray said...

Let us move on from excuses and PR when both have failed to do nothing outside exacerbating the present problems. By enlarge, we must all be agreed that rapid evaporation of public confidence cannot continue. Citizens are ready to welcome Retired Sergeant's return in a new powerful role, mid way between police and public interests. I suggest that good police can be given huge incentives to support the process.

For want of a better title, a Police Appointments Director must have sufficient power to make swift and sweeping changes. It must prioritize the immediate removal of rogue police/loafers and reintroduce old police disciplines with which they are familiar. Following a temporary period of swift dismissals, the second priority must be the listing of incompetent senior officers and subjugating their futures to Tribunal decisions. Let these measures give incidental cause for a reassessment of what the police oath means.

The role cannot be impeded at the outset. It must be untouchable, independent of politics and meddling from Home Office, ACPO, Police Federation, Police Associations, Police Authorities, Freemasonry and minority groups. We have no need of further handicapped diplomats when all that is required is a simple formula on a grand scale. Whether Retired Sgt. can be persuaded to accept such unprecedented responsibility is another matter.

26 April, 2009 08:04

 
Anonymous TheBinarySurfer said...

It is quite hilarious just how the tin-foil hat wearing brigade keep going on about how his face was covered / epaulettes missing.

Occam's razor applies, rather than an elaborate conspiracy.

26 April, 2009 12:33

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What hilarity to witness so many 'ten a penny' PR men cut themselves on Occam's razor.

26 April, 2009 22:14

 
Blogger Dandelion said...

Hello

Very curious about what is wrong with the third of your banned phrases. Not that it's part of my everyday vocabulary - does it have a meaning I am unaware of?

While I am here, I would just like to casually say to some of your commenters that ad hominem attacks in relation to the mental wellbeing of those who dare to critique the police probably doesn't do much good in the PR stakes, and isn't what I would include as part of a healthy debate, or sensible discussion.

Oh, and Gordon Brown has the right idea. I'd think twice about shaking a police-person's hand too.

26 April, 2009 23:59

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dandilion is entitled to his or her opinion, however appearances can be VERY deceptive. Gordon Brown does not in fact "have the right idea". Unless you have not realised the truth, Gordon Brown is an unelected dictator, who has in fact RUINED this country, AND the police force.

He has been working towards this "Grand Vision" of his, steadily for many years, initially from the Treasury. You really do NOT know the half of it Dandilion. Or maybe you do, and perhaps you are a part of Gordon Brown's petty minded, malicious, lies spin and smear "machine" in No10. The man is a danger to the FREE people of this country, who he wishes to oppress by total control, and by local authority snoops, having undermined H.M's Constabulary.

There are probably more police officers who would NOT wish to shake Brown's hand, than do wish to. And those that do wish to are from the DARK SIDE, just like Brown. It is Brown's dark force energy and drive down the WRONG road for this country, that has led to this current mess. The sooner he is GONE from No10, the better for everyone concerned.

We need "The Jedi" to lead us to better times.

There is a pettition to get Brown out of No10, on his own Downing Street website. That says it all.
There is a link to it, in the comments on the latest post on The Policeman's Blog - Use of Force 3.

Check out comments on Bloggsy's last post, and on "Ranting Again" on Constableconfused.com.....For factual justifiable reasons why Gordon Brown is bad news for this country. He has RUINED it, without shame, and with breath taking arrogance and deceit.

Yes Bloggsy, I am just a tad fed up. Fed up of all the nonsense and the fact that Brown is still in No10, leading us to disaster, having totally IGNORED Intelligence held by the S.I.S.....
Intelligence that will PROTECT LIFE

But I do try to look on the "bright side"...... The good news is that the media have seen through Gordon Brown and his deception, and the public are fed up of him too.

27 April, 2009 01:14

 
Anonymous Retired Sgt said...

Dr Gray
I am flattered that ou feel that I am suitable to take on this "exciting new venture.However in order to recruit and retain me I will need the following
1.A salary of £250K pa
2.A second house the mortgage payments and renovation being paid for by the taxpayer.This is essential to enable me to do my job.
3.Expenses to pay for my staff-ie my wife will be office manager and my daughter my chief reseacher
4.Travel expenses to fly to exotic hot countries with my office manager to research policing systems.
5.A chauffeur driven car.
6.A PR consultant ie spin doctor to spread rumours about the sexual/mental health of any senior officer I wish to sack.This PR person will also announce the same initiative several times a year and at the same time labelling ayone who thinks that I am not up to the job as Racist/homophobic/sexist/classist/r
esistant to change.
7.A selection of electronic goods such as mobiles faxes etc that I can throw at people who dont agree with me.
So thats my request but I dont suppose anyone would be able to achieve this type of remuneration package would they?

27 April, 2009 11:50

 
Anonymous Dr Melvin T Gray said...

Dear Retired Sgt,

You must shudder to contemplate a package subordinate to Sir Norm's. A lack of ambition to enhance a modest background on Wikipedia through a team several dedicated PR assistants, is in my estimation, very worthy.

27 April, 2009 14:25

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't get your comment on the picture. Surely 20 years ago, it was MORE likely that a politician would shake hands with a police officer.

Politicos nowadays have nothing but contempt for the police.

27 April, 2009 16:27

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Black Police officer and black president.......

27 April, 2009 21:24

 
Blogger Dandelion said...

Well, anonymous jedi, I get you, but I think blaming Gordon Brown is a little bit oversimplistic, not to mention, forgetful. I mean, to be fair, he's just the latest in a longish line of megalomaniac numpties, the cumulative effect of which has been, yes, to ruin this country. But that, I think is by the by.

28 April, 2009 02:03

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dandelion.....Now did I say that I am a "Jedi"? No, I said we need them. You quite clearly are a supporter of Brown, as you blatantly try to shift the blame away from him and on to others. Typical Brown - NuLabour tactic, of find a conveneient scapegoat and let them carry the can.

Brown is a control freak and a micro manager, who has his fingers in EVERYTHING, and who dominates the party and his ministers. Blaming him is a statement of fact and far from "a little bit oversimplistic". He is at the root of the problems and the mess. He and he alone has driven it, for decades behind the scenes, often with dirty tricks and smearing the names of good people.

Forgetful? Quite the opposite Dandelion. More like total recall of accurate Intel, documented and held by the oppressed S.I.S. Whom Brown has manipulated,to withhold vital information, which it is in the public interest to know, in addition to being "fair" to certain people. Brown is responsible for an outrageous act of deception, and cover ups, to save face and hang on to his position of power.

And to be "fair", there are some good people in Labour and Brown is just ruining the reputation of the party, and undermining them into the bargain. He has, by stealth, ruined this country and the reputation of the Labour party. NONE of that is in fact, "by the by". It is treachery and hypocrisy, of the highest order, in my book, Dandelion.

28 April, 2009 04:37

 
Blogger Observer said...

There are plenty of decent people doing their best in police forces whose lives must be a lot harder as a result of the violence at the G20 summit. Surely in their own interests as honest cops, and as citizens, they have a role in weeding out the culture of violence that led to a whole group of officers standing by while Mr Tomlinson was attacked, not to mention the other incidents under investigation. In addition, part of police training must be to make it clear to recruits that they are not only justified in, but legally bound to, disobey illegal orders. This may help prevent the use of the police by politicians and senior officers as a militia to drive through their political agendas.

28 April, 2009 12:56

 
Blogger staghounds said...

Good luck to Kay!

28 April, 2009 13:01

 
Anonymous Retired Sgt said...

A friend of mine a Sgt recently gave "advice" to a PCSO who constantly walked around with his hands in his pockets-Guess what the PCSO complained and my mate was hauled up before the Deputy Chief to be given a bollocking-so ask yourself which one cares about discipline in the force?and what message does that send to the small minority in the service who feel that they are above the rules?

28 April, 2009 14:14

 
Blogger PC Bloggs said...

Dandelion, the banned phrases relate to a particular troll. He knows who he is.

As for the comments about shaking hands, I have some sympathy for Brown in this position as the danger of shaking the officer's hand is that he will then have to do it every time he enters No.10! But I guess the point of the picture is summed up by the commenter a few posts back.

28 April, 2009 20:20

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"And finally, it isn't all bad news. The below picture would have been unthinkable 10 or 20 years ago. So we are getting somewhere."

No you're not.

Watch the BBC footage of the seconds immediately following that shot.

Obama was polite & showed gratitude; Gordon Brown deliberately ignored & snubbed the Constable. Publicly & on record.

28 April, 2009 21:30

 
Anonymous Hibbo said...

What a lot of comments! IG's link must've given you some (not undeserved) extra traffic.

Two quick points if I may please Bloggserino;

1) Being an unfortunate member of that demographic that ranks far below "Hippy", "Lefty", "Underclass" or "General public", ie "Football supporter", it is normal to see ranks and ranks of plod, freshly dressed, without an ID number in sight. Whilst I do not doubt that it occasionally happens inadvertently due to the reasons you mention, it is clear that a lot of the baton-enthusiasts routinely conceal their ID, now that they have learned that us football scum know we shouldn't be treated like this purely because we choose to spend our Saturdays in at the match.

2) This pay 'dispute' of yours; I remember all the whinges how it was a "pay CUT" etc etc et-bloody-cet, because it was below the rate of inflation. Well, now that we are currently have negative-inflation (or deflation to those of us who say 'shit' instead of 'sub-prime') why aren't you screaming the house down about what a good pay deal you've got in the bag?
Indeed, if in a few years deflation is at 3% and you get a zero % pay deal, will you be celebrating your relative 3% pay rise? I very much doubt it.

Moaning, lazy, hypocritical police? Who'd have thunk it.........

29 April, 2009 03:04

 
Anonymous Hibbo said...

Sorry for the poor English in my comment, it's late........

29 April, 2009 03:38

 
Blogger Bullseye said...

Its nice to see impartial views without prejudice....... What site were they on again.....

29 April, 2009 09:35

 
Blogger uniform said...

Sorry Hibbo but inflation is a localized matter for the Police

1.Batons, they have gone up in price , everyone want's one now after seeing how effective they are.

2.Epaulets , a recent rush on the market has caused a price spike.

3.The printers want more money to print off more complaint forms which include the Gedi religion as a ticky box option.

4.No one is complaining about wages because all that G20 action has resulted in lots of lovely double bubble.

5.Casual overtime has increased due to the crime increases caused by quantitative easing not reaching the underclass , resulting in them needing to do 'more crime'

So you see our indices are up and forecast to keep raising in the medium term.

Set against a basket of currencies, of course.

29 April, 2009 10:15

 
Blogger Jester said...

I knew that photo of President Obama outside No 10 would make it into someones blog, I remember watching the footage and thinking I should find it for myself.

Regarding epaulettes, I requested more epaulettes and numbers a long time ago and well before the G20. Nothing has arrived for any of my officers.

30 April, 2009 00:26

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I lost an epaulette in a scuffle, that took my two working pairs down to one set and a spare. I asked for more epaulettes but haven't received any. That was oh, only about 5 months ago.

It's ok though, I've bought two pairs of embroidered ones to the tune of about £30 of my own money and managed to help a few mates out and have collected another set.

I somehow expect that my orders for spares will go through rather more quickly now.

30 April, 2009 17:53

 
Anonymous Mac said...

Actually, the police 3 year pay deal was a government stitch up that backfired on them because they were so clueless about where the economy was going. Are we supposed to say 'sorry that your attempt to shaft us didn't work through no fault of ours, would you like another go??'
The tragedy of this government is that no one even has to attack them any more. They just keep shooting themselves in the foot without any help from anyone.

02 May, 2009 21:47

 
Anonymous Hibbo said...

The tragedy of this government is that no one even has to attack them tany more. They just keep shooting themselves in the foot without any help from anyone.I agree completely.

It is so sad that the Tories, the fucking Tories are going to get in purely on the fact that they are not Labour.

03 May, 2009 01:03

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hibbo...Hopefully NOT, because it would not be that much of an improvement for this country. There really isn't much to choose between Labour and the CONS these days. The Tories have backed numerous bad decisions and helped NuLab to get them through the commons. Trident for one. Cameron is a chameleon and would NOT be a good leader for this country, but he is rather good at challenging Gordon Brown. That's all he has in his favour, unfortunately. The Tories would take us back to the bad old days and the attitudes of Thatcherism, which is where the rot set in.

It's about time the Lib Dems were given a crack at it, as we have seen what a pigs ear the other two main parties have made of things over the past God knows how many decades.

Both the effing Tories and Labour have screwed up, seriously, and are loathe to admit it. The Lib Dems are a well rounded and balanced political party. I hope they get in.

03 May, 2009 05:31

 
Anonymous Sam Browne said...

Wih regard to Mr Obama, if you see the video you will note that POTUS shakes the coppers hand, when Brown walks past the policeman extends his hand expecting Mr Brown to do the same but is stiffly ignored. Pretty much says it all (a picture paints a thousand words etc). Considering the total contempt this Govt has for the armed forces (of which I am a member) it comes as no surprise that the police are now getting the same treatment.

p.s.

I hear canada has a nice climate

05 May, 2009 13:08

 
Blogger Kimpatsu said...

However I have never met a colleague who will not give out his/her collar number if requested by a complaining member of the public.Am I the only one troubled by the lack of critical thinking in this statement? I've never personally met a murderer; does that mean they don't exist?
Anecdote is not evidence. Just because you personally have never met a cop who (presumably, TELLS you they would never withold their ID, rather than actually witnessing each and every one of them do so each and every time they are asked) means nothing more than that you might be at one end of the bell curve.
Interestingly, tonight's episode of "Cops with Cameras" had a plainclothes officer flatly refusing to identify himself to a motorist.
Is this how you foster trust?

12 May, 2009 17:17

 
Blogger rich said...

I am on a PST (personal safety trainin) course next week...


I think I will hand in my baton, cuffs and CS spray...

I dont think I could afford to loose my job at the moment- I will just walk away from any riots or disorder- you cant stop people fighting by 'tactical comms'...

its what the public want... isnt it?

Policing without actually Policing?

12 May, 2009 17:38

 
Blogger PC Bloggs said...

Rich, see my next post. This is the issue we are now facing.

12 May, 2009 20:05

 
Blogger Technical Support Executive said...

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