Conference or Confederates:
From yesterday's Daily Mail:
"The case centres around the right of police officers to confer when compiling their accounts of an incident. If the Saunders are successful in their legal action, this practice may be scrapped, changing the face of policing in Britain."
For non-police readers, it is commonly held that it is legal and normal for police officers to confer whilst writing their statements. The crucial word is "confer" rather than "collaborate".
In general, it is preferred that members of the public do not confer before giving statements to police, although some discussion is inevitable when a group of people have witnessed something.
The reason this is different for the police is - and this is just my opinion - that in general the police have no axe to grind. In bog standard, day-to-day cases of common assault, criminal damage, theft, public order, etc, etc, police officers are not going to risk their jobs by conspiring to fit up a random punter. You may see it in movies, you may read about it in papers like the Daily Mail, but it just doesn't happen. To be quite honest, I couldn't give a toss whether some guy I nick on a Friday night for spitting in some other guy's face gets convicted or not. I've had him off the streets on the night, I've acted in good faith, that's really all I care about.
But in a case where a civilian has been shot by a police officer, now that's quite different.
Perhaps the answer is that we need clearer guidelines on how officers are to give their statements under these circumstances. In Blandshire, a supervisor would normally take their statement rather than them writing it themselves.
Or perhaps the answer is that we need to invest in our recruitment and training methods, trust our police, and have the back-up that we come down hard on anyone found abusing their power. After all, would we rather we uncovered the few corrupt officers, or that the majority became too afraid to act when we needed them to?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Diary of an On-Call Girl' is available in some bookstores and online.
"The case centres around the right of police officers to confer when compiling their accounts of an incident. If the Saunders are successful in their legal action, this practice may be scrapped, changing the face of policing in Britain."
For non-police readers, it is commonly held that it is legal and normal for police officers to confer whilst writing their statements. The crucial word is "confer" rather than "collaborate".
In general, it is preferred that members of the public do not confer before giving statements to police, although some discussion is inevitable when a group of people have witnessed something.
The reason this is different for the police is - and this is just my opinion - that in general the police have no axe to grind. In bog standard, day-to-day cases of common assault, criminal damage, theft, public order, etc, etc, police officers are not going to risk their jobs by conspiring to fit up a random punter. You may see it in movies, you may read about it in papers like the Daily Mail, but it just doesn't happen. To be quite honest, I couldn't give a toss whether some guy I nick on a Friday night for spitting in some other guy's face gets convicted or not. I've had him off the streets on the night, I've acted in good faith, that's really all I care about.
But in a case where a civilian has been shot by a police officer, now that's quite different.
Perhaps the answer is that we need clearer guidelines on how officers are to give their statements under these circumstances. In Blandshire, a supervisor would normally take their statement rather than them writing it themselves.
Or perhaps the answer is that we need to invest in our recruitment and training methods, trust our police, and have the back-up that we come down hard on anyone found abusing their power. After all, would we rather we uncovered the few corrupt officers, or that the majority became too afraid to act when we needed them to?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Diary of an On-Call Girl' is available in some bookstores and online.
posted by PC Bloggs at 16:01
26 Comments:
As we all know guvnors mess their pants when they have anything difficult to deal with especially firearms incidents or getting to grips with that small number who are yobs in uniform.
Until we get back to real leadership proper training and good standards of discipline aka the good old days....
12 September, 2008 16:16
The reason for this kind of post incident de-brief is covered in Lt Col Dave Grossman's books On Killing and On Combat. Our brains are wired to block out certain events that, during life or death moments, do not help our survive instinct. Our vision narrows, memory gives over "network" time in the brain to the "do-ing" side. So post incident it could take up to 3 days for all the memories to be unlocked and return.
As military I can highly recommend these two books to all police officers. Slightly US in its "hoorahh" feel but its key messages are very good.
12 September, 2008 17:25
We have gone back to the days that a writ of Habeas Corpus is iout of vougue , so lets get back the priviliges of the plumey few, so that they can be above the law.
Privilege.
ORDERED, That Mr. Samuell Pickering, William Wareing the elder, and William Wareing the younger, be discharged from their Commitment to the Serjeant at Arms, paying their Fees; which Mr. Speaker is desired to moderate.
An Information being given, That one Ralph Whitfeild, Servant to Mr. Progers, a Member of this House, was lately arrested upon a Bill of Middlesex, at the Suit of Anne Wells Widow; and is detained in Custody at the House of one Browne, a Bailiff in Holborne, contrary to the Privilege of Parliament;
Ordered, That it be referred to Mr. Speaker to examine the Matter: And if he find that the said Whitfeild was arrested contrary to the Privilege of Parliament, that then he do give Order for his Discharge.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=26822&strquery=1666%20privilege
dungbeetle
12 September, 2008 19:43
Your glib reference to trust reveals an inferior understanding of it. Unlike an overdraft, it is not redeemed by the profligate when convenient. Trust, as Syrus observed, is not a commodity and 'like the soul never returns when it is gone'.
Take pointers from propaganda, Bloggsy. When public trust was lost in Windscale it was born again as Sellafield. Lead your new profession as sarky 'Militsiyawoman' and ignore the countering of clever clogs who chortle that a pig with lipstick on, is still a pig.
12 September, 2008 20:02
Not sure about 'good old days'. I feel that since politicians seem to be able to interfere directly with the police's remit, the police's credibility is tarnished with the public's view of the same politicians (aided by the meeja getting a cheap headline). And trust once used is hard to replace.
However, if one reads the Peelian Principals, our political leaders and, gleefully the meeja, have undermined all 9 points. Unfortunately, most of us, MOPs that is, are unaware of these principals unless we look them up. Perhaps they should be taught at school?
Tony F
12 September, 2008 20:25
The problem lies with the 'family' thinking that the Police are 'suspects' and not 'witnesses'. That appears to be the reason why they are creating such a fuss about the Officers 'conferring'.
What actually constitutes 'conferring'? Half a dozen Officer sat round the table discussing and making notes, - obviously. But what about the Officer who rings the control room to ask what time a particular call came in or the Officers arrival time?
As PC Bloggs says, police officers are not going to risk their jobs by conspiring to fit up a random punter. And these days firearms officers are highly trained so if they fire there must have been a reason. They ar not going shoot someone for the sake of it.
12 September, 2008 21:50
The problem is not the police - it is the government. Of Publilius Syrus I think I prefer -
It is a hard undertaking to seek to please everybody
Pardon one offence and you encourage the commission of many
Never promise more than you can perform
And so apposite for Gordon Brown -
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm.
12 September, 2008 22:57
to conspire is to care..and yeah we ALL care about every poxy job that much.
Particularly statements written at 2am , shit on a stick, ring in sick when you have to read that pile of crap at court.
You can always claim automatic writing,punch the clerk to the court and go off mad !
12 September, 2008 23:58
I do not think it is true in this case but if police have not acted correctly in an incident with major consequences then they may seek to cover it up and protect each other. It is fair enough for the other side to raise the possibility in my view.
13 September, 2008 11:45
There was something a bit odd about the case. Why did the guy go off on one and start shooting at a child's bedroom in the first place?
People were saying of him after his death, that he was a lovely guy and a good husband, and they could not understand what had upset him so much as to go crazy with a gun.
Why did police shoot him in the head 11 times? What was the victim "involved" in, that has not yet come to light? Is his death a convenient cover up, to save others from the exposure of serious wrong doing?
All legitimate questions.
The police and judiciary are not perfect angels one and all. There are some dubious characters within these professions who are attracted to those jobs because of the power it gives them over others. Some abuse that power, and always have done.
Doc T Gray quotes someone who, quite frankly, is talking BOLLOX, as the soul CAN and DOES return after death. Reincarnation is a fact, and those who are open minded and sensitive/psychic enough, can communicate with souls in the astral realms, or "afterlife" as it is often called. This is also a fact, which could be quite useful in murder cases.
There is one such case from 1956 - Lynne Whitely aged 6yrs, who was murdered in Manchester. After death she most certainly did communicate with many, mostly children, but also some special branch officers and other adults. She provided a great deal of very valuable intelligence for the S.I.S which saved thousands of lives. The fact of her communicating with kids and adults after her "death" is a documented fact - if the government [and some others] had the balls to admit it.
It is the negative reactions of the ignorant and sceptical "flat earthers", to that sort of reality which can muddy the waters of perception and understanding. The medical profession can also create misunderstandings due to their dogmatic "belief" that hearing a voice communicating with one, is a sure sign of madness. It isn't. It is a sign of psychic sensitivity. Angelic communication and guidance is nothing new, to the enlightened.
14 September, 2008 04:09
Anon@ 04.09. Have you been drinking? To answer the only question in your post that seems to have come from with any basis in reality he wasn't shot 11 times in the head, 11 rounds were fired in total over a five hour siege five of which hit Mr Saunders.
14 September, 2008 04:37
Whoops sorry. Forgot to take the pills again. Anyone seen my hatstand?
14 September, 2008 11:00
Bloggsy
Can you do a piece about the dangers of allowing mad people access to the internet..after all by so doing mad people are making spurious claims about the legitimacy of hearing voices that the police are overun with paperwork and are run by a bunch of idiots with degrees in three dimensional design and that the Home secretary is bang on top of her job...Whats that Mother?Those nice men in white coats are still waiting...Now coming..
14 September, 2008 11:55
The recruitment and training is where tis all gone to pot Ms Bloggs. I still keep in touch with a few old colleagues in police HR and recruitment and the checks, the training and the level of individual overall have gone so far done it saddens me greatly.
Anon:
11 times in the head? You realise after the 4th or 5th round the skull generally starts to come apart, and that dead people dont continue standing in view for the other 9+ rounds you claim hit him in the head.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
14 September, 2008 16:26
An escaped mad person who claims to be a Dr. is still and escaped mad person. Any lipstick involved is just an aggravating factor!
Dr. Dave T Muggle.
14 September, 2008 16:33
He is quite right. I often come back in another life, several times a day on occasions.
14 September, 2008 19:15
One can of course never actually disprove such assertions, it is just that for some reason or another the proof has always been lost or covered up or nobody had a camera or the tapes were burnt in a fire or ...
14 September, 2008 19:18
oi Bloggs
that comment on Copperfield's blog re Canadian fridges..fecking funny made me laugh out loud, family think I'm a nutter.
14 September, 2008 20:38
Hey Bloggy,
Are you one of us?
Steven Strait
14 September, 2008 21:51
19...No I have not been drinking. I very rarely drink alcohol, and no I am not on "medication". Apologies if I misread in the press,how many shots landed in the man's head. Don't the police shoot to just disable people anymore?
And to whoever made the inevitable boring old flat earther comment of "mad person", in response to something true, which must have stretched their poor brain a bit. Sadly you just show how narrow minded and ignorant you are.
Bless.
There is actual documented proof of reincarnation. A great deal of research has been done over a long period of time, upon children and adults.
And the 6 year old girl named Lynne Whitely who was murdered in 1956, in Manchester, by an act of rape and a vicious beating, IS A FACT. You really should show more respect for the dead, as well as the living, who do perhaps know a bit more than yourself about the case. She was my half sister.
15 September, 2008 03:05
"Don't the police shoot to just disable people anymore?"
No. Did they ever?
15 September, 2008 10:39
What a silly question. Careers are built on catching corrupt officers!
Who was ever promoted, or had his picture in the newspapers, for getting police officers to act when we needed them to?
15 September, 2008 15:11
Thanks uniform, at least I still amuse someone: shame not on my own blog...
15 September, 2008 17:39
Don't the police shoot to just disable people anymore
Police fire at the biggest area of the offender thats currently visible.
Thats normally the torso.
Its unfortunate for the offender that the heart, lungs and other organs that one cant really do without, are lodged in there..........
16 September, 2008 20:48
成人電影,情色,本土自拍, 一夜情, 辣妹視訊, 視訊聊天室, 免費視訊聊天, 免費視訊, 視訊, 視訊美女, 美女視訊, 視訊交友, 視訊聊天, 免費視訊聊天室, 情人視訊網影音視訊聊天室, 視訊交友90739, 成人影片, 成人交友, 本土自拍, 免費A片下載, 性愛,
成人交友, 嘟嘟成人網, 成人電影, 成人, 成人貼圖, 成人小說, 成人文章, 成人圖片區, 免費成人影片, 成人遊戲, 微風成人, 愛情公寓, 情色, 情色貼圖, 情色文學, 做愛, 色情聊天室, 美女交友,
嘟嘟成人網, 成人貼圖, 成人電影, A片, 豆豆聊天室, 聊天室, UT聊天室, 尋夢園聊天室, 男同志聊天室, UT男同志聊天室, 聊天室尋夢園, 080聊天室, 080苗栗人聊天室, 6K聊天室, 女同志聊天室, 小高聊天室, 情色論壇, 色情網站, 成人網站, 成人論壇, 免費A片, 上班族聊天室, 成人聊天室, 成人小說, 微風成人區, 色美媚部落格, 成人文章, 成人圖片區, 免費成人影片, 成人論壇, 情色聊天室, 寄情築園小遊戲, AV女優,成人電影,情色,本土自拍, A片下載, 日本A片, 麗的色遊戲, 色色網, ,嘟嘟情人色網, 色情網站, 成人網站, 正妹牆, 正妹百人斬, aio,伊莉, 伊莉討論區, 成人遊戲, 成人影城,
ut聊天室, 免費A片, AV女優, 美女視訊, 情色交友, 免費AV, 色情網站, 辣妹視訊, 美女交友, 色情影片 成人影片, 成人網站, A片,H漫, 18成人, 成人圖片, 成人漫畫, 情色網, 日本A片,
愛情公寓, 情色, 舊情人, 情色貼圖, 情色文學, 情色交友, 色情聊天室, 色情小說, 一葉情貼圖片區, 情色小說, 色情, 色情遊戲, 情色視訊, 情色電影, aio交友愛情館, 色情a片, 色情小說, 一葉情貼圖片區, 情色小說, 色情, 寄情築園小遊戲, 色情遊戲情色視訊, 情色電影, aio交友愛情館, 言情小說, 愛情小說, 色情A片, 情色論壇, 色情影片, 視訊聊天室, 免費視訊聊天, 免費視訊, 視訊美女, 視訊交友, 視訊聊天, 免費視訊聊天室, a片下載, aV, av片, A漫, av dvd, av成人網, 聊天室, 成人論壇, 本土自拍, 自拍, A片,成人電影,情色,本土自拍,
03 April, 2009 21:35
爆爆爽a片免費看, 天堂私服論壇, 情色電影下載, 成人短片, 麗的線上情色小遊戲, 情色動畫免費下載, 日本女優, 小說論壇, 777成人區, showlive影音聊天網, 聊天室尋夢園, 義大利女星寫真集, 韓國a片, 熟女人妻援交, 0204成人, 性感內衣模特兒, 影片, 情色卡通, 85cc免費影城85cc, 本土自拍照片, 成人漫畫區, 18禁, 情人節阿性, 做愛的漫畫圖片, 情色電影分享區, 做愛ㄉ影片, 丁字褲美女寫真, 色美眉, 自拍俱樂部首頁, 日本偷自拍圖片, 色情做愛影片, 情色貼圖區, 八國聯軍情色網, 免費線上a片, 淫蕩女孩自拍, 美國a片, 都都成人站, 色情自拍, 本土自拍照片, 熊貓貼圖區, 色情影片, 5278影片網, 脫星寫真圖片, 粉喵聊天室, 金瓶梅18, sex888影片分享區, 1007視訊, 雙贏論壇,
免費成人影音, 彩虹自拍, 小魔女貼影片, 自拍裸體寫真, 禿頭俱樂部, 環球av影音城, 學生色情聊天室, 視訊美女, 辣妹情色圖, 性感卡通美女圖片, 影音, 情色照片 做愛, hilive tv , 忘年之交聊天室, 制服美女, 性感辣妹, ut 女同聊天室, 淫蕩自拍, 處女貼圖貼片區, 聊天ukiss tw, 亞亞成人館, 777成人, 秋瓷炫裸體寫真, 淫蕩天使貼圖, 十八禁成人影音, 禁地論壇, 洪爺淫蕩自拍, 秘書自拍圖片,
aaaa片, 免費聊天, 咆哮小老鼠影片分享區, 金瓶梅影片, av女優王國, 78論壇, 女同聊天室, 熟女貼圖, 1069壞朋友論壇gay, 淫蕩少女總部, 日本情色派, 平水相逢, 黑澀會美眉無名, 網路小說免費看, 999東洋成人, 免費視訊聊天, 情色電影分享區, 9k躺伯虎聊天室, 傑克論壇, 日本女星杉本彩寫真, 自拍電影免費下載, a片論壇, 情色短片試看, 素人自拍寫真,
15 April, 2009 10:52
Post a Comment
<< Home