This is the official blog of ex-Sgt Ellie Bloggs. I was a real live police constable then sergeant for twelve years, on the real live front line of England. I'm now a real live non-police person. All the facts I recount are true, and are not secrets. If they don't want me blogging about it, they shouldn't do it. PS If you don't pay tax, you don't (or didn't) pay my salary.
There isn't a great deal to say about this except a big Oh Dear.
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Copyright of PC Bloggs.
posted by PC Bloggs at 17:08
23 Comments:
If my front line staff numbers weren't deliberately depleted to pay for these numpties, I'd probably find that funny.
04 February, 2008 17:21
Sharon Taylor, Assistant Chief Constable of Devon and Cornwall police, said the PCSOs "did the right thing" during the incident.
"Personal safety was their primary concern and they did the right thing. We don't intentionally put them into situations to deal with violent confrontations issues because they are not trained to deal with them."
Great Shaz , just great, we don't intentionally , classic
See home office site.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/police/recruitment/community-support-officer/
Police Community Support Officers particularly work to reassure the public and to tackle the social menace of anti-social behaviour.
and.......
Depending on your role, you may also be given some police powers, including the power to:
* detain someone until a constable arrives
ACPO ? how can she continue in her role if she has no idea what they are supposed to do ?
04 February, 2008 18:01
In fact why go to the home office site ?
Read
http://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/v3/howhelp/pcso/index.htm
Police Community Support Officers play a vital role in improving the quality of life for people in Devon, Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly.
Including...
They also have a number of powers, which include the power of detention for up to 30 minutes (pending the arrival of a police officer).
What will this captain of industry say when next asked by the Police authority ?
04 February, 2008 18:14
I a popular town centre at 21:30 on Friday night, I counted 10 PCSO's and one policeman. We parked up to watch the sights. a quarter of a million pound in wages was on display. One of them told a punter to put his burger litter in a bin, and was told to fuck off!
What happens next? PCSO walks straight over to our car, tells us what we just saw, adding the caveat, "what can we do, we're just a bunch of plastics!"
enough said!
04 February, 2008 18:35
It's a shame they did not push the little sh*t into the room and lock HIM in!
The problem is that the Govt are too vain to admit that the PCSO experiment has been a failure.The fault is not with the PCSOs who are largely genuine people but with the fact that they are not trained for the difficult situations they find themselves in. Strange that there are no PCSO Firemen or Paramedics! - or that a an unarmed PCSO does not stand outside no 10. It really boils down to the fact that the Home Office(certainly in Blunketts day) has no clue about Policing and think that patrolling the town means nothing more than walking about in ayellow jacket.
04 February, 2008 21:35
They should have pushed him into a lake and let him drown? Oh, sorry.... that's already been done.
04 February, 2008 21:48
The sadest part is that once again those of us trying to do some good are made to look totally stupid!
For the record, I've never backed off from a 13yr old yet, and pray I never will.
I apologise for any embarrasment I have caused to Police collegues during the past four and a half years.
04 February, 2008 22:10
I dunno, I understand the PCSOs may be considered a horrendous waste of money, but I quite appreciate having their appearence on the street. Before there was nothing, now there's PCSOs, it's certainly a step in the right direction, IMHO.
05 February, 2008 09:18
There are currently 15,000 PCSOs working across the UK today, supporting 141,381 police officers, and each earns up to £25,000 a year.
Really?
£25k for being plastic and being told to fuck off by chavs when i get told to fuck off by them now for nothing! Where do i get an application form.
05 February, 2008 11:09
Armed robbers or a gang of football hooligans I could understand, but a 13 year old lad? When there were two of them?
Many years ago, when I was a Special, we had the p*** taken out of us by the Regulars and the public, but MOST of us did the job well. Maybe PCSO's were thought up by a Special somewhere, to stop people having a go at us?
05 February, 2008 12:37
Oh dear doesn't even begin to cover it! Still it's nice to see that my tax money is being well spent on PCSO's...
And /Clap Clap Clap at IG's comment ;)
05 February, 2008 14:43
Another case of wrong tools for the job, half jobs being seen to be doing the job but again unable to do the job because of training issues, health & safety, following directions, operating within their remit, etc etc et and all supported by the chief officer group. As is usual, so it seems, they are out and about in twos so the perceived financial savings go down the pan, along with the narrow viewpoint of the converted that itis somehow more efficient.
Absolute blocks. Promote the brand, at all costs is the name of the game, and to the uninitiated it somehow all appears to be fine.
To the rest, well I think we all know what we think about that.
05 February, 2008 15:01
Can someone explain to me the difference between 'detaining' (which some PCSOs can do, and 'arresting' which no PCSOs can do? If I am being detained, I am being prevented from going where I want to be, which in effect, surely means I am being arrested. If I was told I was being detained, then asked if I was being arrested and being told 'no', what would happen if I walked away (or attempted to)?
05 February, 2008 23:03
You are , or course , quite correct
you MUST say the words "you are are under arrest for (fill in offence )
caution .to detain a person ,or lay hands on them
IF you do not, the arrest is not lawful even for a fully sworn police officer.
Therefore since the PCSO can not arrest they really can not detain
It's a con , the person who dreamt up PCSOS thought that the scallywag would hang around , which they might .
You could walk away.
however, If the PCSO saw an arrestable offence taking place they could use ordinary common laws available to all members of the public to detain that person ..but then we are back to wading into confrontational situations , which the ACC of Devon and California says they are not trained to do.
..but you are if you're the general public ..not on (maybe ) £25.000 a year ..for doing it
eh , my brain hurts .
06 February, 2008 09:04
I take offence at being labelled a numpty. Call the concept a numpty idea, or the Home Office a numphty organisation fine. But labelling all PCSOs numptys isn’t on really. Considering a quarter of currant recruit Constables are ex PCSOs, these are your colleagues we’re talking about here.
Most people are probably aware of the witch hunt currently running on PCSOs in the press. Its why any positive stories (like the two separate incidents where PCSOs saved drowning people, detained a bank robber and disarmed a chap wielding a firearm etc) are not covered, instead blown out of proportion stories like this and the ‘PCSOs solve one crime every six years’ like we were employed to be Detectives or something??
The comment second from the top that ACPO guidance is to detain is wrong in this instance. Many forces do not designate their PCSOs this power, and the ones that do, do not designate the ‘power to use force’ to go with it.
If they haven’t been designated this power, chances are they haven’t received any officer safety training like restraining tactics etc (not to mention the lack of PPE). It’s not fair to expect PCSOs who haven’t been designated the power, given the training, the Personal Protective Equipment or offered the same kind of support (legally) should they use force against a child. Perhaps with that in mind, its better to just call for back up and stay out of trouble.
Attack the concept of PCSOs, fine, I may even agree with you, but not the individuals doing the job. Most of us are doing the best we can with the powers, training a support we have at our disposal.
06 February, 2008 23:12
Just to correct a comment from, purpleavenger - powers to detain with force mean exactly that, they can detain a person and use force to prevent that person making off for the arrival of a constable. Suggesting you could just walk off is wrong, as force would be used against you to keep you there. So long as those powers were in place and designated.
PCSOs from force to force are worlds apart, BTP and NWP PCSOs have hand cuffs and are always facing confrontation, issuing Sec 5 tickets, D&D to rowdy football thugs etc.
Others run and hide from teenagers…just comes down to where you work, your powers, training and deployment.
06 February, 2008 23:22
PCSO Bloggs, the point is, why send someone to this incident who cannot properly deal with it? Albeit the incident changed in nature after arrival, a police officer would have been able to deal with the change. And the other point is, this offender was 13 years old and not armed. The uniform they were wearing should have given them the confidence to put him in his place, or at least to try.
07 February, 2008 08:53
Oh dear , repeated rambling postings by PCSO blogger
If you had read my post you would have seen /sensed , whatever , that the wordings for detention come directly from the DEVON AND CORNWALL WEBSITE PCSO RECRUITMENT PAGE , typed slowly for you !
so , therefore, It is their force policy for their PCSOS to detain persons , until a PC comes to help them out of the class room , where they were hiding
They did not do this , why ?
To correct your attempt at a correction , the second from top post is again from THE HOME OFFICE WEBSITE , not ACPO
The point of my posts are this :
The public have been fed a lie about the role of PCSOS , they do not do what the public want , this is re-enforced in this case by The ACC. of Devon and California
The PCSO could and should have done what their own website says
then there would not have been the embarrassing story in the national newspapers
07 February, 2008 10:14
‘purple person,’ my comment, which you seem to have missed, is that they don’t have that power, that was my point. The website says, just as most other force sites say, that PCSOs CAN be designated powers to detain etc. though the matrix of powers on the HO website shows that they do NOT. therefore they couldn’t lawfully detain anyway. Making your point (and numerous quotes) absolutely redundant.
Sorry about the triple post the other day, thought it was a double post, which is bad enough I know.
09 February, 2008 21:09
Speaking as a 7 year PC, I have to say you get just as many numpty PCs as PCSOs, I don't really understand why all the PCs here are attacking the PCSOs, if the press wrote the same articles about PCs you'd be slagging off the press not the PC, we all know how they work... and no I don't agree with the concept of PCSOs either, but blame the government rather than joining in a press witchhunt against individual PCSOs
12 February, 2008 19:19
I don't understand the hostility from certain pigs towards the PCSO's? The PCSO's are actually (these odd gutter press bullshite stories apart) developing links into the community and building badly needed bridges. PCSO's are surely worth the investment if only for their PR value.
19 February, 2008 15:10
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